View Full Version : Libby, do you believe in ghosts?!
This thread is for Libby's research!
lol This made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up! Maybe you have seen it before?
As we all know :rolleyes:, Agatha Ariel had an affair with Dr William James Dunsford and during their affair Dr Dunsford had been married "to a young lady of fortune".
His bride was Matilda Amelia Slater Crowdy who was born in Highworth Wilts. Her parents were William (d 1838) and Mary Ann Crowdy and the family home was Westrop House at Highworth.
I was just reading this:
http://www.highworthhistoricalsociety.co.uk/westrop_house_ghost.htm
Love it!!!!!
The dear Dr suicided, didn't he???
From memory Matilda's son was born about the same time as the youngest of Agatha's.
The affair began before Dr Dunsford married, and that was in June 1844. (I had thought maybe Agatha didn't know he was getting married or had got married, but there's a notice detailng the marriage in the bristol Mercury, so if she didn't know about it before, she must have known after)
Matilda Crowdy's father was already dead when she married, but her mother was alive. However, mum died in December of the marriage year and there is a newpaper notice for that too. It says:
On the 5th of December at The Hotwells, Clifton, where she had gone for the benefit of her health, Mary Anne, relict of the late William Crowdy Esq of Westrop House, Highworth Wilts.
I do hope her Dr son-in-law didn't bump her off before news of his romantic links got back to her or her daughter? Perhaps she is the Westrop House ghost?
How come someone who died in 1844 have probate dated 1916?
I didn't know the Dr committed suicide. His will was proved in 1864 by the oath of his widow, Matilda. I thought the government got the estate of suicides in those days? (I may have made that up???!!)
Just a little something...
- Mary Ann Matilda Crowdy nee Slater, widow (husband William died 21 Apr 1838 at Westrop House) died 05 Dec 1844. *Date of Probate 12 Feb 1916 (*England & Wales National Probate Calendar)
- Mary Crowdy married Rev James Hartley Dunsford on 22 Feb 1813. *She emigrated with her husband and ten children to Ontario in 1838 and lived in a log house by Sturgeon Lake, Bobcaygeon. (*Archives of Canada)
Oooh off to find that death of the Dr.
How come someone who died in 1844 have probate dated 1916?
lol! It's an admin only. There's another one very late for Henrietta Crowly who died in 1840 (sister of Matilda)
Just a little something...
- Mary Ann Matilda Crowdy nee Slater, widow (husband William died 21 Apr 1838 at Westrop House) died 05 Dec 1844. *Date of Probate 12 Feb 1916 (*England & Wales National Probate Calendar)
- Mary Crowdy married Rev James Hartley Dunsford on 22 Feb 1813. *She emigrated with her husband and ten children to Ontario in 1838 and lived in a log house by Sturgeon Lake, Bobcaygeon. (*Archives of Canada)
James Hartley Dunsford b 1786 Ashburton, Devon son of James and Catherine Sophia
William Besly Dunsford (father of William James D) b 1790 Tiverton, Devon the son of George and Margaret.
Guess they were cousins.
Yep.
Now....where did I read about Dunsford's death?
Can't find it in The Times.
Oooh, you were right - I've found it in the Daily News. Would you like me to post the image?
I see he was declared bankrupt in the Feb before Agatha's divorce case, despite being married to an heiress!
Merry...it's in The Daily News Nov 14, 1864.
You found it....lol
Thanks...I found it as well.
Another Bristol court case for the same year as the divorce?
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=-3014859&CATLN=7&Highlight=%2CRAYMOND%2CCOLES%2CDUNSFORD&accessmethod=0
Libby, if you have Gale access, try searching for Charles Copley in the 19thC papers. You will find this interesting:
BRISTOL COURT OF BANKRUPTCY .
The Bristol Mercury (Bristol, England), Saturday, February 28, 1846
Is Edward Clark acting for Wm James Dunsford? (I hate all the legalese!)
OK..will take a look.
There's another Clark (doctor) mentioned as well but i think (hope) it's just coincidence...lol
I have just downloaded the will of William Besley Dunsford and some Crowdy ones. Not sure what they say yet and they are those unreadable PCC ones....so could be a while.
Blimey...I dunno......I work in maths not law...lol
Wasn't Raymond Coles Dunsford, Bill and Matilda's baby. He was only born 1846.
I think the bankruptcy one was Dunsford v Clark. Dunsford had to pay Clark for the use of his wife......or something...lol
There's another in Bristol Mercury where Henry Clark and Dunsford are parting ways.
There's also another where Dunsford and (Gawd...I fogot) disolved the mining agency partnership just before Dunsford died.
Yes, he was their only child. I think Matilda may have banished Wm from the bedroom when she found out about Agatha! Raymond went to live in Calcutta. He went bankrupt eventually (Gazette)
I think the bankruptcy one was Dunsford v Clark. Dunsford had to pay Clark for the use of his wife......or something...lol
There's another in Bristol Mercury where Henry Clark and Dunsford are parting ways.
There's also another where Dunsford and (Gawd...I fogot) disolved the mining agency partnership just before Dunsford died.
pmsl! The lot of them just love the courtroom, don't they?
Yes they did......pity I can't find the court proceedings for Elizabeth Ariel's will being overturned...
I've now got 4 wills to read......lol
I'll let you know if anything pops up.
lol
Just got another one.....
Olde Crone
30-01-12, 10:44
Oooh, no, a cuckolded husband could claim damages from the man who had, as you so beautifully express it, the use of his wife.
OC
5,000 pounds worth of wife to be exact OC......not bad for 1846.
Could go a long way towards buying the Gainsboroughs, etc from the ex father in law's estate.....lol
Yes, that happened to my uncle! He got caught in bed with a woman by her husband when the husband came home unexpectedly during WW2! I think it cost him £300.
When was that law repealed?
I'm saying nothing about the difference in price..............lol
lolol!! But did Edward Clark actually receive any money from Dunsford who was a bankrupt?
Beggered if I know.......it's all beyond me now.
Actually he did, didn't he? Wasn't that in the paper. His mum handed over some.
I do not believe they were without funds......between the Dunsfords and Crowdys, there had to be a fair whack.
Olde Crone
30-01-12, 11:23
Merry
I think it all changed when the divorce laws were modernised in the 1960s(?) and a wife was no longer seen as a possession of her husband.
Enticement, that's what it was called. Always conjures up a mental picture of someone like Terry Thomas, winking and beckoning from the shrubbery to some fluffy headed married woman who had no idea what he wanted......
OC
lol OC!
My uncle did make an honest woman out of his £300 eventually!
I do wish we had photos/paintings of all these people.....I have strong images in my mind of some of them.....Agatha (blonde ringlets, fair skin, petite), Edward Clark (not very tall, mousy, moustache), Wm Dunsford (taller and darker but not particularly good looking), Lucretia Clark/Ariel (matronly (I can't imagine her young!) Like a ship in full sail and with no sense of humour) Myles Ariel (whiskery) Elizabeth Naylor/Ariel (like her daughter, but just less of everything), Francisco Giacobbi (French/Italian ladies man! Short dark and handsome)
Do you think it's time to start writing the screenplay? :rolleyes:
samesizedfeet
30-01-12, 13:34
The late estate papers are probably due to something in one of the Wills causing problems.
My 4x gt grandfather had a codicil in his Will saying if my 3x gt gran married she was to get no inheritance because she was, basically, too stupid to marry. After his death she married one of the executors of the Will.
Her half sister, stepmother and the other executors took it through the courts and my understanding of what was decided is she couldn't inherit but as the original Will mentioned money passing to her children and the codicil didn't negate that, her 10 children could inherit.
All the estates start to get confusing as the last of these children die off and the Probate for Sarah Linkson who died in 1915 isn't settled until 1932 when the estates of all the others who died after her (the last sibling died in 1930) are sorted out according the decision of the courts over the 1837 Will. Sarah's took longer because she died childless and without marrying so the succession of her part of the 1837 inheritance depended on who was left and in what order they died.
That's my basic understanding anyway. It's actually unbelievably confusing and I normally close that folder with fear whenever I start to look at it all.
samesizedfeet
30-01-12, 13:39
Erm, what I was trying to say there was, officially, the 1837 Estate wasn't settled until 1932 - although the Will does appear on TNA for 1837 - but the confusion over pretty much delayed the filing of all later Wills of the beneficiaries who didn't acknowledge the 1837 inheritance and the complications of it in their own Will.
And this has just reminded me that I've not even looked at the Wills of the half sisters children yet. So I expect further confusion awaits me. *sigh*
SOrry for thread hijacking.
This has been bought to you by the random thought processes of the Linkson genetics infected by Willliam Rennoldson (died 1837. Not a big fan of women thinking)
No worries Zoe....lol
You helped with some of these wills, you can put your two bob in.
I honestly can't work it all out. With Elizabeth Ariel's will, even the children didn't get what she left them.......I think that was because the entire will was overturned.
I can't get my head round it either.
I did wonder if Myles originally did give permission for his wife Elizabeth to write a will, but perhaps he also had the right to change his mind at any time, even after she had died?
Maybe around the time Elizabeth died he had his head turned by Lucretia - she didn't have the wealth he did, so he wasn't after her money, but he wanted her, and realised if too much of Elizabeth's money ended up with their children he might not be able to maintain his lifestyle or capture Lucretia? So he threw out Elizabeth's will so that he and Lucretia could live in the lap of luxury. Of course it didn't turn out that way because of his death. Not sure how Agatha's marriage fits into this intrigue?!!
Only an idea - I wish they had all kept personal secret dairies which survived!
Chris in Sussex
31-01-12, 06:48
Do you think it's time to start writing the screenplay?
Well if you do even half as well as Julian Fellowes you may have to share your fortune with Libby ;)
Chris
lol Chris!
Libby, I was thinking about those adult C of E baps for Agatha and Mary - do you think it was just the influence of the (C of E) Clark family once Myles was dead?
EDIT - However, didn't Lucretia Podmore appear in the Baptist records? :confused:
Merry......I'm 100kms away from my home computer, so this is from memory...
What surprised me was Agatha's baptism. It was well after her marriage and after a few children. I'm sure her children would have been C of E as Edward's brother was a minister.
With Mary, I suppose that could have been Lucretia's idea as she was only 5 or 6 when Myles died.
I'll see if i can find the baps online.
Agatha's baptism was 1842 St Michael's Bristol. Suppose that was C of E.......
Mary's wasn't until 1851 at St Andrew's Clifton.
I would have thought Agatha would have been baptised as Clark rather than Ariel as well. I suppose they just used her birth name.
Lucretia Podmore was born 1778 and registered at Broad Mead Baptist 1807.
Just found a tree on Ancestry (lol) with the Crowdys.
They have Matilda Dunsford having another child, Lionel Lyde Dunsford in 1847 (dying 1849)
I can't find him, but there is another birth on FreeBMD for a William Henry Lyde Dunsford born 1850 in Swindon. Wonder who he belongs to.......off to look at census.
Here's a death for Lionel:
Deaths Jun 1849
Dunsford Lionel Lyde Dartford 5 75
re the other birth, there's a Henry Lyde Dunsford marrying in Swindon in 1847, so perhaps Wm Hy is his son?
Yep that's the one
1851 has Henry Lyde Dunsford and wife Susana Baden Dunsford with sons, Martin 2 WHL 1 and baby 1 month.
I love that ghost story. Libby are you going to visit and open barrell. Take about a literal brickwall. lol
As for wills and probate, my 4g grandfather died and left his property to his illegitimate youngest son. One of the conditions of the will was that if the son died childless the property passed to his legitimate children and/or their heirs. So the will was redone, probated?, 50 years or so after the original death.
Mary from Italy
01-02-12, 03:17
I would have thought Agatha would have been baptised as Clark rather than Ariel as well. I suppose they just used her birth name.
I've come across adult baptisms for married women where the vicar registered the baptism under her maiden name, but put "wife of..." in brackets.
I had a look at the new British Newspapers site to see if I could find anything interesting, but I didn't, although I did find three deaths for children of Myles Ariel (Anne and Jane in 1825, William in 1826 and Ann Kirby in 1828). If you don't have them, I'll send you the details.
Mary from Italy
01-02-12, 03:19
Agatha's baptism was 1842 St Michael's Bristol. Suppose that was C of E.......
Yes:
http://www.eastbristol.org.uk/stmichael/Welcome.html
Mary from Italy
01-02-12, 12:23
Completely off topic, I don't suppose you're related to Sir Edward Eyre Williams of Como House, Melbourne, Libby? I've just discovered that I'm related by marriage to his wife.
Mary................the only Eyre in my tree is Elizabeth who married George Naylor 1795 in Yorkshire.
She had a father who was a "merchant of this city" and no mother and I'm not sure where she was born......lol. She did have a ring and other bits and bobs with the Eyre crest though.
Libby, did I dream there was a marriage between Elizabeth Griffith and William Ariel (were they the parents of the Wm who married Miss Naylor?)??? - I can't find it on FS any more ;( I was wondering what the date was?) I see there's another Griffith/Ariel marriage (John to Jane) in 1767 and wondered if this might be a sibling of Wm or a child of his marrying a relative?
I'm guessing you have already looked at the various Ariel marriages on the IGI as I remember the saga of Sarah Ariel who married Daniel White and Austin Webb within a few weeks of each other!! lol
Liz Griffith married Will Ariel (apparently) and their son was Will, who married Liz Kirkby.
Their son was Myles who married Liz Naylor.
Lots of Elizabeths marrying Ariels and I should have known better....lol. Or at least not started this tree...lol
Yes...I've seen the Sarah marriages and presume they are maybe aunt and niece??? My sister saw the origanls for me in Utah and they are correct.
Doh! I meant Myles lol *generation slip moment*
What does 'apparently' mean?!! Do you still have the date/details?
Do you have Eliz Griffith's death/burial details?
All I have is what someone gave me yonks ago. She went to England pre-computer (hard to believe that was a time...lol)
Elizabeth Griffith/s married William Ariel no dates
Their children
William 1757-1835
Elizabeth 1752-1850 (She married Joshua Taylor)
Sarah 1741
Mary 1742
I'm sure there would have been others between Mary and Sarah.
There is a burial (Baptist) of an Elizabeth aged 80 in 1798.
That is probably/possibly Liz Griffith/s
Oh, that's strange, because now you say it, I remember that bit about the lady who had the names but no date, from pre computer, but I thought I had found the marriage when FS had that pilot site, but having done a lot of googling, I can't find any thread on any FH forum where I've told you I'd found it - but it's quite strong in my memory! (obviously losing it! lol)
I even remember Ariel was with two Ls and Griffith was without the S.
*thinks*
Ah, here it is!
groom's name: Wm Ariell
bride's name: Eliz. Griffith Or Grifith
marriage date: 03 Sep 1748
marriage place: Clifton, Gloucester, England
indexing project (batch) number: I04911-3
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1749584
I searched using her name but not his this time! So, she might be a second wife, given two baps you listed are before 1748! (I remember saying that before! lol)
Things I've found for the earlier gen in date order! (I realise this is mostly a repeat!)
Everything from FS unless stated. All spellings as transcribed.
Interesting that most of the baps come before any marriages!
John Ariel bap 4 Feb 1727 St Phil & Jacob - father Wm
Sarah Arill (that sp) bap 10 Jan 1741 St Phil & Jacob - father Wm
Sarah Arill bur 26 Jan 1741 "Bristol"
Mary Ariel bap 12 Mar 1742 St Phil & Jacob - father Wm
Hannah Arrial mar 17 Mar 1742 to George Davis St Phil & Jacob
John son of Wm Ariel apprenticed to Stephen Bagg of the City of Bristol, currier July 1742 (Ancestry apprentices' indentures)
Mary Ariel bur 11 Feb 1743 "Bristol"
William Arill mar 14 Nov 1744 to Sarah Cross "Clifton"
Elizabeth Ariel bap 12 May 1745 ditto - father Wm
William Ariel bur 7 Feb 1745 "Bristol"
Betty Ariel bur 24 Jul 1745 "Bristol"
Joseph Arill bap 15 Jul 1747 "Bristol" - father Joseph
Wm Ariell mar 3 Sep 1748 to Elizabeth Griffith "Clifton"
Martha Arell bur 9 May 1751 "Bristol"
Timy Ariel bur 5 Apr 1757 "Bristol"
This could be Timy too: Ariell Husband / Father: William Ariell 1757 Burial Somerset RG4_2871 Full Details (BMD Registers)
Ann Ariell mar 23 Dec 1759 to Thomas Ormond, St James
John Ariell mar 23 Feb 1755 to Betty Joy, St James
Sarah Areil mar 10 Nov 1764 to Nicholas Walker St Phil & Jacob
Jane Ariell mar 31 Dec 1767 to John Griffith, St James
Elizabeth Ariell mar 5 Apr 1768 to John Abbott, St James
Ariel Husband / Father: Mr Ariel 1769 Burial Somerset RG4_2871 Full Details (BMD Registers)
Elizabeth Ariell mar 13 Jul 1775 to Joshua Taylor, St James
Catherine Ariell 1781 Burial Somerset RG4_2871 Full Details (BMD Registers)
William Arell 1781 (IGI says 26 Sept) Burial Somerset RG4_2871 Full Details (BMD Registers)
William Ariel mar 16 Apr 1787 to Elizabeth Kirkby St Phil & Jacob
David Ariel bur 9 Aug 1793 Broadmead, Bristol son of Wm
Elizabeth Ariel 1798 Burial Somerset RG4_1826 Full Details (BMD Registers)
Can't find baps for these two:
William 1757-1835
Elizabeth 1752-1850 (She married Joshua Taylor)
Interesting that the two who are missing (if they are missing!) are the same two who were definitely brother and sisier (from Eliz Taylor's death notice) - though that does say she was his 'last surviving sister' suggesting there had been more.
I was only going up to 1800 (and only up to about 1780 for baps), but did wonder who this is? (b around the same time as Myles?)
ARIEL , William Abode: Bitton Buried 10 Jul 1817 aged 27 Parish: Kingswood, Whitfield Tabernacle
There's an entry on FMP for the 1748 Ariel/Griffith marriage:
ARIEL William 1748 Bristol Diocese Marriage Licences Gloucestershire
I wonder what that is? (don't have sub :o)
Similar entries for a couple of the others:
ARIELL Jane 1767 Bristol Diocese Marriage Licences Gloucestershire
ARIELL Elz 1775 Bristol Diocese Marriage Licences Gloucestershire
EDIT: I've just realised there are no images for those entries (just a transcript) and they only cost 5 credits each so may not have much info. It might be good to know where Wms marriage took place though.
Mary from Italy
02-02-12, 15:24
There's no other information for any of them; they come from Boyd's Marriage Licences, which are not very helpful (they just give the year and the spouses' names). I assume the Bristol RO may have the licences, though.
Mary from Italy
02-02-12, 15:27
From Ancestry:
Name: Jane Ariell
Gender: Female
Spouse's Name: John Griffith
Marriage Date: 31 Dec 1767
Marriage Place: Bristol, Gloucestershire, England
Name: Elizabeth Ariell
Gender: Female
Spouse's Name: Joshua Taylor
Marriage Date: 13 Jul 1775
Marriage Place: Bristol, Gloucestershire, England
Mary from Italy
02-02-12, 15:31
Took me a while to find William :)
Name: William A.
Gender: Male
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth G.
Marriage Date: 30 Sep 1748
Marriage Place: Clifton, Gloucestershire, England
Took me a while to find William :)
Name: William A.
Gender: Male
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth G.
Marriage Date: 30 Sep 1748
Marriage Place: Clifton, Gloucestershire, England
lol!!!
Mary, which database are those entries in on Ancestry? I can't find any of them!
EDIT - found now - see post #69 :)
I assume the Bristol RO may have the licences, though.
I think they may have the later two (Jane and Elizabeth) but not sure about William's (looking at the dates covered in their index for marriage bonds etc.)
Just walked in the door. Been out all day. Must have walked 20kms after a round trip drive of 400kms...lol
Having a cuppa and will look back if I don't fall asleep.
I do appreciate all this work.
tenterfieldjulie
03-02-12, 08:12
Hi Libby pleased you are home.
Mary, which database are those entries in on Ancestry? I can't find any of them!
Found them now! Goodness knows what I was doing wrong before as they appeared straight away today!
Merry...where are they? I'm having awful trouble with Ancestry. Can't find the obvious, then go back and it's there....No idea what I'm doing wrong.
They're in the database called
England & Wales Marriages, 1538-1940
Found them now! Goodness knows what I was doing wrong before as they appeared straight away today!
Merry...where are they? I'm having awful trouble with Ancestry. Can't find the obvious, then go back and it's there....No idea what I'm doing wrong.
You did say these were ghosts, didn't you? :eek::d
Janet.....do not jest.
Some of this lot went to Canada and USA as well. I could set you to work.....lol
Libby, do you have a sub for Origins?
No Merry.
I looked at the site ages ago and couldn't work head nor tail of it...lol. I have Ancestry and The Genealogist.
I don't know Libby! I was hoping you would have access to the Yorkshire wills database via one of your subs :o
Never mind - I'm working on something! lol
I'm rubbish at finding wills. I have the pre 1858 ones that are on TNA on The Genealogist.
The Genealogist has Yorkshire Wills Index 1389-1652, but that's too early for my (your?!) requirements!!
yes, but I have dates and names to look for :D, but no database to look on!
Two wills for people called Eyre. I'm trying to prove that against all the odds I might have found/proved??? Elizabeth's bap!
The wills I would have liked to have found to help prove/disprove this are for George Eyre who died in 1793 in Penistone, Yorks and needs to have a daughter named as Elizabeth Earnshaw, wife of John. The other will would be for James Eyre who died in Leeds, Yorks in 1805 - I would like him to have a daughter called Elizabeth Naylor! lol
Obviously they have to have made wills first, but there is a lot of circumstantial evidence to suggest these are the first people to chase. They seem to be the right class, they travel all over the place (one pops up in London but did everything else (BMD) in Yorkshire), James and George (brothers) both have daughters called Elizabeth witin a year of each other, but I have reason to believe George's married Mr Earnshaw.
I'm fairly sure James who died in Leeds is the same person as had dau Elizabeth in Penistone and the clincher (as it stands, without a will to prove anything) is that the Publications of the Thoresby Society in which Eliz Eyre's marriage was reported as a dau of a merchant of this town ) were all about the history of Leeds, not Birstall or Wakefield or Penistone etc.
This all started from seeing a marriage of a Lydia Eyre in Birstall in 1836 who was clearly well off when I found her on the census, so I went back from her!
I have a load more suff about them here, but I have to go out to get dau some gloves!!! *sigh*
Oooh sounds good. My Elizabeth Eyre was born about 1756 if that helps although you probably know that.
Funny you should mention that, because all the way along for ever and ever I had thought she was 78 when she died, but it was only today that I realised that really would make her suspiciously old to have been having children for the first time after 1795 - then when reading an old thead I realised you thought she was five years younger and I had mis-read her death notice! Then everythig slipped into place!!
Going out NOW! lol
Right, I'm back! let's see if i can write this down in some sensible order.......
As we all know, Eliz Eyre married George Naylor in 1795 in Birstall and she was 'of Wakefield".
I saw Lydia Eyre m Thos Wilkinson in 1836 in Birstall.
The census shows her OH was an Oil Merchant with servants. There was his sister in law, Eleanor Eyre, living with them and she was b in Leyton Essex, fulfilling the wanderlust Eyre gene!
Lydia had a Baptist birth record for 24 Jul 1812 in Leeds (she seems to have been born in Birstall though, according to the census) the dau of Joseph Eyre and Elizabeth Radford (who were m 1794 in Leeds). Lydia had a lot of siblings and a whole load of them were baptised as adults in the C of E at Cleckheaton on 23 April 1833, so that sounded like the Ariel's in Bristol!
Looking at Lydia's father, Joseph - He seems to have been bap 9 Jun 1767 at Penistone the son of James. Married Dec 1794 at Leeds aged 27, by licence occ merchant. He may be the one listed under Gentry and Clergy at Cleckheaton in the 1829 Pigots directory on Genuki.
Joseph's father James seems to have had a load of children baptised at Penistone including:
8th Sept 1757 Elizabeth dau of James Eyre :)
Trouble is, James's brother George had a daughter called Elizabeth the following year, but I think she married John Earnshaw in 1776. One of the marriage witnesses was George Eyre. If your Mrs Naylor was George's daughter then tha doesn't make sense, as George had been dead years by 1795 and so wouldn't have been described as 'merchant of this town' on the marriage notice.
James and George were the children of Edward Eyre. Edward had a lot of other children bap at Penistone including Benjamin and Vincent. I saw this on TNA:
Memorandum of enrollment of deed in Wakefield Registry - SY/45/E17/12 1785
These documents are held at Sheffield Archives
Contents:
Lease and release of James Eyre of Hunslet Lane, p. Leeds, merchant, George Eyre of the same, merchant, Benjamin Eyre of Token House Yard, London, merchant and Vincent Eyre of Thurlstone, p. Penistone, gent. to Joseph and John Moss of Penistone Green, tailors of a parcel of land in Nether Field at Thurlstone (1a)
Benjamin was bur at Penistone, despite having lived in London, as were most of the others. James, however, was bur in Leeds. There is a death notcie for him in the Monthly Magazine (Google books) in 1805. says he was 78. His burial entry says he died of old age aged 78 and was of Hunslet Lane, Leeds.
So, in conclusion we have:
Edward b ??- m Eliz Walton or Watton in Penistone 1718 - bur prob 1744 Penistone
Son James b 1727 Penistone - m?? - d Leeds 1805
James dau Elizabeth b 1756 Penistone - m Geo Naylor????????????
They certainly got about! When Benjamin Eyre married (by licence) in 1761 in Cawthore, Yorks he was 'of the Parish of St Christopher in the City of London'.
Now that sounds just fine......
Are these all on Ancestry???
I have wills of all the Eyres I could find on the PCC wills. I have a will for Vincent Eyre proved 18?? . You know what I'm like at reading those PCC ones. lol. It could take a while. I'll go see what other Eyre wills I have.
The only James Eyre around the right time is 1799 and a Knight, Lord Chief Justice of some court....
There are two later ones 1816 Middlesex and 1845 Yorkshire.
I'll see if I can read either of those. Maybe a brother?
I never thought of Elizabeth having a load of siblings, particularly brothers, as she had all the Eyre crests, seals, rings etc. Did all the children have those or just the eldest sons???
The James in Middlesex (died 1816) had a daughter Caroline. I can read that much...lol
Short will though for this lot...lol
The 1845 one seems to say he's the son of a Doctor of Divinity. that would be C of E wouldn't it??
The PCC will for Vincent in 1801 is a different chap than the one who was buried in Penistone in 1802 (though he may of course be related!) if you Google Vincent Eyre Sheffield there is a lot of stuff about the Sheffield man.
I've not found any PCC wills for the immediate people I was investigating. This is the only thing which makes me feel I am wrong about them!
The children of James seem to be:
Edward 1754
Elizabeth 1756
Ann 1759
James 1763
Benjamin 1764
Joseph 1767
William 1769
The 1845 one seems to say he's the son of a Doctor of Divinity. that would be C of E wouldn't it??
Yes, I think so.
Is ther an online list of Yorkshire wills that are later than The Genealogist ones...say post 1780ish?
I can't see anyhting on Google for that.
Just off to Google Vinnie....
Oh, the death duty registers on FMP might show something for James (George died too soon!), but I don't have a sub :o
Is it this one?
http://www.origins.net/Welcome.aspx
I've not found any PCC wills for the immediate people I was investigating. This is the only thing which makes me feel I am wrong about them!
I've just realised if you lived in the north your will might well be proved through York rather than Canterbury - it's not all down to the size of the estate, so James could have left a large estate! I'm still worried about an average merchant in Leeds being rich enough for crests and the like. Maybe he just had delusions of granduer! lol
Did the will of Elizabeth Naylor/Ariel (the one that was overturned) mention any specifics that would have come from her Eyre family? Did Elizabeth Naylor/Eyre make a will?
Is it this one?
http://www.origins.net/Welcome.aspx
Yes, but I've never used it.
I have Elizabeth Naylor's will.
The first bit.....
This is the last Will and Testament of me Elizabeth Naylor of the City of Bristol, Widow. I hereby revoke all former and other Wills testaments and Codicils by me heretofore made and direct payments of my just debts funeral expenses and the charges of proving this my Will. I give and bequeath the sum of forty pounds to be paid out of my personal estate to the London Missionary Society. Also I give and bequeath to my servant Ann Virgo the sum of nineteen pounds and nineteen shillings to and for her own proper use and benefit. I give and devise unto and to the use of my daughter Elizabeth, the wife of Myles Ariel of the said City of Bristol, Broker, all that my messuage situated at Wakefield in the County of York. And also all those my several Closes and Parts or Parcels of land situate at Cleckheaton in the said County of York together with the respective appurtenaures to the said messuage and land belonging to hold unto and to the use of her my daughter for and during the term of her natural life and from and after her decease I give and devise the same respectively unto and to the use of all and every the son, sons, daughter and daughters of her my said daughter begotten and to be begotten who shall live to attain his or her or their age or ages of twenty one years or be married under that age and to the respective heirs and assigns of such son and sons, daughter and daughters of her my said daughter who shall live to attain such his her or their age or ages of twenty one years or being a daughter or daughters be married under that age as ???? tenants in common, And in case there shall be only one such son or daughter who shall live to attain such his or her age of twenty one years or being a daughter be married under that age then I give and devise the same hereditaments and promises unto and to the use of such only son or daughter his or her heirs and assigns for ever.
Pity there isn't stuff in Leeds as well as Wakefield!
I wonder what the the grandkids actually got as the will of her daughter was overturned.....
Have to go out for half an hour...
Mary from Italy
04-02-12, 20:52
Yes, but I've never used it.
I got a one-month sub a while ago (now expired, unfortunately), and they do have a lot of old Yorkshire wills. I ordered one, which was fine, although it took a while to arrive.
I'll get a one month as well. It's only about $15.
I've ordered wills from Lancs before and they are quick and the older one (1743) was lovely to read.
Found a burial for an Elizabeth Eyre 1/1/1835 aged 65 in the Independedt Chapel at Cleckheaton. She was the wife of Joseph Eyre. I think the image may say Marsh House??
Oooh! Where is the image? Can you post it up?
Found a burial for an Elizabeth Eyre 1/1/1835 aged 65 in the Independedt Chapel at Cleckheaton. She was the wife of Joseph Eyre. I think the image may say Marsh House??
That's pretty close to the dob for Elizabeth Radford who was the wife of Joseph Eyre, potential brother of Eliz and son of James of Leeds.
And Marsh House was George Naylor's (OH of Liz Eyre) house when he died in 1806.
Waiting.......
***it's morning here and I'm not tired....lol***
Sorry, I had trouble with my email program!
Yes, I'm sure that says Marsh House!
Which PRs are those? Cleckheaton?
Can you see a burial for Joseph? Should be after Eliz as it says "wife of". I want to know if his age fits an 1767 birth date? (and anything else it says!)
Haven't done the lot yet but.
Joseph Eyre and Elizabeth Radford....
Children's births (just s few to get the addresses)
Elizabeth born 1804 Hunslett Lane, Leeds
Eleanor born 1808, Essex
Lydia born 1812, Cleckheaton.
George Naylor dies Marsh House Cleckheaton 1806.
There on the non-con BMDs.......
Back soon. I'll just keep adding if you need sleep.....
Can't see a burial for Joseph. The ones after 1835 are not this family. There aren't any for Cleckheaton after that so maybe not done...
There's quite a few Joseph Eyre deaths on FreeBMD but they don't give ages till after 1866.
Confirmation of the address:
The Leeds Mercury (Leeds, England), Saturday, January 3, 1835
On Saturday last, aged 65, Elizabeth, wife of Mr Joseph Eyre, of Marsh House, Cleckheaton.
I've tried looking for Joseph in the paper without luck, but am off to bed now....
Goodnight and thanks.
I'm off to read Geo Naylor's will again. Can't fit those Robinsons, Linfitts etc but will have another look.
Just going....
I have now seen that Marsh House is in Gomersal. A website about Charlotte Bronte (:rolleyes:) told me someone called William Hirst was there in the 1840s and I have found him there in 1841 aged 70. If Charlotte B knew the people who lived in Marsh House in 1841 she might well have also known the people before that!
I havent really taken it in properly as I'm tired! Scroll down to note 5 here:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ESH22a2yaWoC&pg=PA229&dq=%22marsh+house%22+birstall&cd=1#v=onepage&q=%22marsh%20house%22%20birstall&f=false
Joseph (gent lol) was listed in Cleckheaton (I think Gomersal was actually part of the parish of Cleckheaton - needs checking) in 1834 Pigots (assuming it's the same Joseph and not a relative!)
I've gone a bit further with Lydia Eyre (daughter of Joseph). She married Thomas Williamson an oil merchant. Eleanor Eyre (her sister born Essex) lived with them. Lost both after 1861 but found possible deaths for both 1870.
In the original book "Jane Eyre" Charlotte Bronte wrote a note dedicating the book to William Thackarey. William's father worked for William Ariel in Bristol. Maybe they all were involved long before the marriages.
Why aren't you in bed??
Mary from Italy
05-02-12, 05:18
I have now seen that Marsh House is in Gomersal.
I've been thinking about that, because although Gomersal is right next door to Cleckheaton, it isn't the same place, and the other references we've found were to Marsh House Cleckheaton as far as I remember.
Anyway, I've been playing around with old maps to see if I could work out where it was, and it looks as though there were two Marsh Houses: one in Gomersal and one in Cleckheaton.
The one in Cleckheaton was slightly to the south-west of Syke Fold: roughly where Marsh Street is now, by the look of it:
http://tinyurl.com/7kujm37
And the one in Gomersal was between Nibshaw Lane and St. Mary's Church: roughly where Butts Hill is now:
http://tinyurl.com/72xp3at
Mary from Italy
05-02-12, 05:20
Marsh House Cleckheaton
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7004/6821193649_8f2867c7c4.jpg
Marsh House Gomersal
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7009/6821193643_d436aaf975.jpg
http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html
Mary from Italy
05-02-12, 05:32
I also had a quick look at newspapers, but I couldn't find Joseph Eyre's death.
I found a death notice for Edward Eyre aged 23, eldest son of Joseph Eyre of Marsh House, Cleckheaton, who according to the newspaper dated Thursday 24th April 1823 died on "Friday last", which would be 18/4/1823.
I searched for Marsh House, but all I found was a reference to the marriage on 27/12/1838 of William Birkby of Marsh House, Cleckheaton. So either Joseph died before that, or he'd moved elsewhere between the end of 1834 and the end of 1838.
Oh, and Joseph Eyre of Cleckheaton owned property in Leeds in 1822. Not sure if any of this helps, because Merry's way ahead of me :)
Let me know if you want the actual cuttings, Libby.
Mary from Italy
05-02-12, 06:04
(I think Gomersal was actually part of the parish of Cleckheaton - needs checking)
Cleckheaton and Gomersal were both in the parish of Birstall:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/WRY/Birstall/more.html
Mary from Italy
05-02-12, 06:07
Just going....
I have now seen that Marsh House is in Gomersal. A website about Charlotte Bronte (:rolleyes:) told me someone called William Hirst was there in the 1840s and I have found him there in 1841 aged 70.
And you found the Birkbys in Marsh House Liversedge in 1841 :)
http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=155452&highlight=marsh#post155452
That's definitely the same as the Cleckheaton one, because Syke Fold's shown on the opposite page (I think - it's a bit of a scrawl).
Mary from Italy
05-02-12, 06:16
From the IGI:
EDWARD EYRE
Male
Event(s):
Birth: 24 MAY 1799 South Parade Baptist, Leeds, Yorkshire, England
Parents:
Father: JOSEPH EYRE
Mother: ELIZH. RADFORD
And you found the Birkbys in Marsh House Liversedge in 1841 :)
http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=155452&highlight=marsh#post155452
That's definitely the same as the Cleckheaton one, because Syke Fold's shown on the opposite page (I think - it's a bit of a scrawl).
Ah right! I didn't remember that! So the Liversedge Marsh House is 99.9% likely to be the right place? I was put off because Lydia Eyre/williamson who Libby has b Cleckheaton in an earlier post said she was b Gomersal on one census! I wonder how often letters went to the wrong house "Marsh House, nr Wakefield" and no pstcode lol!
I don't know that I'm way ahead at all!
Should we be working if there are other candidates for the Joseph Eyre gent from the 1834 Pigots directory than the husband of Elizabeth (Radford?) who was buried in 1835?
Some random newspaper notices
These are not accurate transcriptions - just giving the gist!
The Leeds Mercury (Leeds, England), Saturday, November 11, 1809
death of Mr Benjamin Eyre of Wakefield, late of London (Wed se'night)
The Leeds Mercury (Leeds, England), Saturday, August 25, 1821;
Mon inst at Birstall John Williamson of Cleckheaton merchant to Mary dau of Joseph Eyre of Marsh House Liversedge
The Leeds Mercury (Leeds, England), Saturday, March 22, 1823
I don't know who this is and I haven't come across the 'six weeks ago' reported death....
Yesterday week in London, Mr John Eyre son of Mrs Eyre, whose death was reported six weeks ago, and brother of Miss Eyre of North Town End in this place (ie Leeds, presumably)
The Leeds Mercury (Leeds, England), Saturday, February 7, 1824
On 3rd ult in London Mr Thomas Sandys of that place to Miss Margaret Eyre of this town.
The Leeds Mercury (Leeds, England), Saturday, September 22, 1827
On Monday week at Penistone, Mr Thomason cloth merchant to Catherine dau of the late Mr James Eyre all of Thurlstone Nr Barnsley
The Leeds Mercury (Leeds, England), Saturday, November 10, 1832
Tues last aged 68 Mrs Eyre relict of James Eyre of Thurlstone and sister of John Brooke alderman of this town.
The Leeds Mercury (Leeds, England), Saturday, July 27, 1833
Thursday 11th at his residence Tullidoey,Co Tyrone Ireland aged 78, Edward Eyre Esq eldest son of the late Mr James Eyre of Hunslet Lane Leeds.
The Leeds Mercury (Leeds, England), Saturday, January 3, 1835
Sat last Eliz wife of Joseph of marsh House Cleckheaton aged 68
The Leeds Mercury (Leeds, England), Saturday, March 18, 1837
On Sunday at Thurlstone George Eyre aged 40
The Leeds Mercury (Leeds, England), Saturday, November 17, 1838
Thurs week at Benburb Church Thomas Eyre of Benburb Castle Co Tyrone to Hester Elizabeth widow of the Rev Chas Richardson of Moy Co Tyrone.
The Leeds Mercury (Leeds, England), Saturday, July 13, 1839
On Sat Edward Eyre of Thurlstone aged 70
The Leeds Mercury (Leeds, England), Saturday, September 28, 1839
Hester Eliz wife of Thomas Eyre of Bemburb Castle Co Tyrone, aged 33.
I've looked up to the end of 1841. Then a Rev Eyre starts conducting marriages so the number of hits escalates a lot!
I had to look twice when I first saw the name Birkby......as Elizabeth Ariel (nee Naylor) mother in law was Elizabeth Kirkby from Lancashire.
And.......The Sandys family were huge in Hawkshead where the Kirkbys came from.
As mary reminded us, there was a Birkby in marsh House in 1841. in 1851 there's no property listed as marsh House in Liversedge, but there is Marsh Mill, Marsh Lodge Marsh Place and plain Marsh. There are two households listed for Marsh and one of them is John Naylor 36 cloth dresser and his family. Only those aged 1 and under were b in Liversedge. Everyone else is b Morley.
Mary from Italy
05-02-12, 13:43
The Leeds Mercury (Leeds, England), Saturday, March 22, 1823
I don't know who this is and I haven't come across the 'six weeks ago' reported death....
Yesterday week in London, Mr John Eyre son of Mrs Eyre, whose death was reported six weeks ago, and brother of Miss Eyre of North Town End in this place (ie Leeds, presumably)
The Leeds Mercury (Leeds, England), Saturday, July 27, 1833
Thursday 11th at his residence Tullidoey,Co Tyrone Ireland aged 78, Edward Eyre Esq eldest son of the late Mr James Eyre of Hunslet Lane Leeds.
Ah, how annoying. I had a look at the death duty index from about 1835-44 to see if I could find anything interesting, and I think there was a John Eyre from London, who I discounted. I don't think I looked as early as 1823/1833, though.
I'll see if I can find him again. I seem to remember there was an Irish Eyre too; I remember wondering what he was doing there.
By the way, Merry, I'm not sure if there's a copyright problem with the maps I posted; feel free to delete them if so.
So, we now know that Joseph and Eliz Eyre who lived at Marsh House are definitely Joseph Eyre and Eliz Radford as records for their children have the address in the newspaper notices. (Edward who died and Mary who married one of the Williamsons).
It makes sense that these Eyres should be relatives of Elizabeth Naylor.
It's extremely likely that Joseph and Elizabeth are two of the children of James of Leeds as the baps are at the right dates and sensible place and James is 'of this town' (Leeds) when Elizabeth (Naylor) marries.
We would like to find a will for James (d Nov 1805), but that has been unsuccessful so far. Maybe he handed on his property before his death?
TNA
Will of Edward Eyre of Tullidoey , Tyrone 05 June 1837 PROB 11/1879
Mary from Italy
05-02-12, 19:04
The Leeds Mercury (Leeds, England), Saturday, March 22, 1823
I don't know who this is and I haven't come across the 'six weeks ago' reported death....
Yesterday week in London, Mr John Eyre son of Mrs Eyre, whose death was reported six weeks ago, and brother of Miss Eyre of North Town End in this place (ie Leeds, presumably)
Can't see anything in 1823, but in 1824 there's a Yorkshire probate for John Eyre, executor Thomas Jingle of Netherhouses, Yorks (about 20 miles from Cleckheaton).
There was a probate for an Elizabeth Eyre the same year, but it looks as though she was from the Warwickshire area (probate in Lichfield and executor from Warks).
Mary from Italy
05-02-12, 19:09
TNA
Will of Edward Eyre of Tullidoey , Tyrone 05 June 1837 PROB 11/1879
Yes, that's the one I saw yesterday, I've just found it again. The executor looks like JE Jackson.
The same year there was a probate for Elizabeth Eyre of Monk Gate, York; executor J? Eyre of Cheltenham, and one for Benjamin Eyres of Armley, Leeds, executor W Eyres.
Phew!!!! No to get my head around all this....
I also discounted quite a few Eyres as they didn't 'seem' right.
So......it's possible Elizabeth Eyre (b 1756/7) could have had all those Eyre seals, rings, etc even if she had lots of siblings???? I just assumed only the eldest son would have them. No idea why...
I have the childre of Joseph Eyre and Elizabeth Radford as:
James 1795 abode Hunslett Lane Leeds
Mary 1797 " " " "
Edward 1799 " " "
Thomas 1801 " " "
John 1803 " " "
Elizabeth 1804 " " "
Eleanor 1808 Leyton Essex
Lydia 1812 Cleckheaton
Lydia married Thomas Williamson, an oil merchant. I've tracked her up to 1861. After that she's gone.
Eleanor was single and living with Lydia until the same time.
Lydia and her daughter Fanny are with another Williamson (a clergy bloke) in 1871 as visitors, while Eleanor is still with Thomas and the children.
Mary seemed to marry a rellie (brother?) of Thomas.
There was an Irish one in the wills.....can't remember but maybe Vincent?
I'll see if The Genealogist has Edward Eyre's will.
OK...have downloaded that will and it looks almost readable.....
The others I have are beyond me....lol....and new specs make no difference.
Right.........Edward gives his brother, Joseph some money and also Joseph's daughter, Lydia some money...
Haven't read who else is in it, but it's the right Edward for that family.
As Edward Eyre (above) is definitely of your Eyre family and was in Co Tyrone I thought those Benburb Castle people (in the newspapers) might be his descendants. It's not that easy though!
I saw this marriage:
groom's name: Thomas Jackson
groom's birth date: 1745
groom's age: 38
bride's name: Lydia Eyre <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
bride's birth date: 1761
bride's age: 22
marriage date: 11 Dec 1783
marriage place: Leeds, York, England
indexing project (batch) number: I03798-8
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1469886
I don't know who Lydia Eyre is yet, but given we have another Lydia Eyre as a dau of Joseph Eyre and Eliz Radford I'm guessing she is part of the same family.
Anyway, I have found these grave inscriptions online which include people from the papers and the couple above:
Memorials of the Dead Vol II p364
COUNTY TYRONE: Benburb Parish
THOMAS JACKSON, / of Tullidoey,* / died 20th April, 1805, / aged 63 years.
LYDIA JACKSON / widow of THOMAS JACKSON / Died 6th Decr., 1852, / aged 91 years.
THOMAS EYRE, / of Benburb, / Died 25th January, 1847, / aged 45 years.
HESTER ELIZABETH / first wife of THOMAS EYRE, Died 21st September 1839, / Aged 33 years.
JULIA MARIA, / Widow of THOMAS EYRE, died 16th September, 1879 / aged 62 years.
SALLY TISDALL, / Died 16 May, 1837, / aged 26 years.
SARAH EYRE JACKSON, / Died 25th October, 1843, / aged 34 years.
ANNIE JACKSON / of Tullodoey, / died 27th May, 1859, / aged 71 years.
ELIZABETH JACKSON, / of Tullodoey, died 21st day of Feb., 1862, aged 76 years.
JAMES EYRE JACKSON, / of Tullodoey, / died 19th of April, 1862, / ages 68 years
There's a PCC will for one of them too:
Will of Sarah Eyre Jackson, Spinster of Mullantaine near Stewartstown , Tyrone 09 February 1844 PROB 11/1993
Mary from Italy
05-02-12, 19:27
I've checked wills and admons for 1805-6, but I can't see anything for James.
He also mentions several other rellies including his brother, Benjamin, but no mention of Elizabeth's children.
Still no proof...
Ah....Merry. Lydia who married Jackson is Edward's sister. The Tisdalls are in the will as are the Jacksons.
Mary from Italy
05-02-12, 19:29
As Edward Eyre (above) is definitely of your Eyre family and was in Co Tyrone I thought those Benburb Castle people (in the newspapers) might be his descendants. It's not that easy though!
I saw this marriage:
groom's name: Thomas Jackson
groom's birth date: 1745
groom's age: 38
bride's name: Lydia Eyre <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Edward's executor was JE Jackson (possibly the James Eyre Jackson that Merry found a burial for), so that fits nicely.
So....we are thinking James is the father of my Liz.
Now to find a will for him.... I have all the James Eyre wills from PCC. I will print them out in large font and wade through them.
Mary from Italy
05-02-12, 19:33
Did you subscribe to Origins in the end? I've had a quick look, but my sub's run out, and you can't search by date. It's giving a few hits for James Eyre, but it could be any date.
Not yet Mary.
I can today, but was trying to work out if any were different to those I have on The Genealogist.
The great thing about The Genealogist is they have the PCC wills and you can download all the images.
I don't think the right James Eyre has a PCC will though.
Unless he had property down south his will would be proved in York or a smaller court, not through Canterbury.
From Mary's earlier post it looks like James may not have left a will unless it took it's time being probated!
Here's a bit more on the Irish relations:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=YdIKAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA642&dq=%22james+eyre%22+leeds&hl=en&sa=X&ei=n-ouT67UKMKq8AObiLmaDw&ved=0CFUQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=%22james%20eyre%22%20leeds&f=false
What's this about?
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=YQkMAAAAYAAJ&q=%22james+eyre%22+leeds&dq=%22james+eyre%22+leeds&hl=en&sa=X&ei=KuwuT47EMJSQ8gPgys36Dg&ved=0CDUQ6AEwATge
Well I have no idea but it looks interesting.
If you remember when Myles Ariel went missing in Australia in the mid 1850s, he was wearing a ring with the Eyre crest. It was a leg in armour.
Mary from Italy
05-02-12, 20:18
That James Eyre snippet is fascinating, Merry. If he had a fortune of £400,000 there must have been an admon, if not a will, surely? And what was his seal doing in America?
Mary from Italy
05-02-12, 20:21
The book is about "military buttons, belt-plates, badges and other relics excavated from Colonial, Revolutionary, and War of 1812 camp sites by the Field Exploration Committee of the New-York Historical society". I wonder if one of James' descendants fought in the Revolutionary War?
I've been in touch with the NYHS about someone of mine; I can give you their e-mail address if you like, Libby.
If you remember when Myles Ariel went missing in Australia in the mid 1850s, he was wearing a ring with the Eyre crest. It was a leg in armour.
I remember that!
Where James Eyre appears in the index of that book with Emanuel Elin - if you look at the next person underneath - A Roberts is of Tokenhouse Yard. Isn't that where Benjamin Eyre was when in London? I guess that's just a co-incidence?......
I wish I had your brain Merry........it's Monday morning here and mine is rubbish already.
I am going to write all this on a big sheet of paper and see what turns up.
There are a lot of co-incidences....lol
James isn't going to make £400,000 on 20s a year (divided with two brothers!)
Surely all that money must be someone elses......and yet......??
TNA
Counterpart of lease CM/1005 24 Jan 1761
Contents:
Aymor Rich of Bullhouse to James Eyre, George Eyre and Vincent Eyre of Penistone and Benjamin Eyre of the City of London. Part of a piece of ground called Greavesholm between the goyt of Hornthwait Mill and the river Dunn for 99 years for yearly rent of 20s.
Former reference: B6 b30.
Mary from Italy
05-02-12, 20:45
I might have found something helpful, but I can't face reading through the thread yet again, so apologies if I've missed anything :)
The wills I would have liked to have found to help prove/disprove this are for George Eyre who died in 1793 in Penistone, Yorks and needs to have a daughter named as Elizabeth Earnshaw, wife of John.
From the IGI:
Possible marriage for George:
GEORGE EYRE
Male
Marriages:
Spouse: ANNA ASKHAM
Marriage: 01 JAN 1757 Penistone, Yorkshire, England
Two possible children of the marriage:
ELIZ. EYRE
Female
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 30 MAY 1757 Penistone, Yorkshire, England
Parents:
Father: GEORGE EYRE
ASHAM EYRE
Male
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 10 SEP 1769 Penistone, Yorkshire, England
Parents:
Father: GEORGE EYRE
From TNA:
In Chancery Tong/7f/11 7 Apr 1830
These documents are held at West Yorkshire Archive Service, Bradford
Contents:
Between Askham Eyre and Elizabeth Earnshaw, widow, and John Heaton, since deceased, on behalf of themselves, and all other creditors of John Turton, deceased, pltfs; and John Turton and others, dfcts; - particulars of valuable freehold messuages, lands and hereditaments situate at Ackworth and Gildersome, in the Parishes of Ackworth and Batley, to be sold with the approbation of John Edmund Dowdeswell, Esq. one of the Masters of the said Court, at the Woodman Inn, Wakefield.
Mary from Italy
05-02-12, 20:46
Where James Eyre appears in the index of that book with Emanuel Elin - if you look at the next person underneath - A Roberts is of Tokenhouse Yard. Isn't that where Benjamin Eyre was when in London? I guess that's just a co-incidence?......
Ooh, well done, I missed that.
Mary from Italy
05-02-12, 20:52
Also, James Eyre, merchant of Thurlestone, was in business with an Askham, and had some litigation against other Askhams.
Just went looking at Google books for Benjamin Eyre.
There's quite a few hits, but there is one that mentions a Benjamin Eyre of Kensington and something about oil.
Just looked at 1820 US census (which has nothing except name and districts) there is a Benjamin Eyre and a Lydia Eyre (no idea if they live together or are related) in Kensington Philidelphia.
Mary from Italy
05-02-12, 20:55
That's interesting - I didn't realise there was such an early US census.
Lydia Eyre of Philadelphia is the daughter of Manuel Eyre and shipbuilder. Just found something about her marriage.
Probably scrap her.
Ancestry has them Mary. 1790 is about the earliest, but they don't have much, just names, districts and number of people (including coloureds and slaves)
I'm starting to hate Google books.
There's something about Lydia Eyre, daughter of James and Benburb and a Jackson.
Can see more on the search page than in the book. I put in "Lydia Eyre" Leeds
Here's another snippet
Lydia, dau. of James Eyre, of Hunslet, near Leeds, merchant, by whom he bad issue, James-Etre Jackson, now of Tullydowey, Esq., justice of the peace for co. Tyrone. Mary, wife of Samuel-Nevil Ward, ...
Merry...you might want to read and delete. Not sure if I'm supposed to do that.
Mary from Italy
05-02-12, 21:02
In 1795, James Eyre and Askham Eyre of Thurlstone in the Parish of Penistone, corn millers and oil makers, trading as "James and Askham Eyre", dissolved their partnership.
Why isn't my Elizabeth ever mentioned except in her wedding news?
The others seem to all say daughter/son of James Eyre
I wonder if the James Eyre we are all looking at has his crest/seal somewhere???
Another snippet about "James Eyre, his wife and two sons, Edwin and Benjamin" and Manuel Eyre.
They have to be related somewhere. Manuel has that daughter Lydia in USA
Merry....another one you may want to delete
Maybe we could move this to 'sensitive' would that help with worries about copyright??
EYRE, Sir James. Gold band, with black and white enamel inlay, named: SIR JAMES EYRE OB.6 JULY1799.AET.65. Hallmarked London, 1799, maker WH. Inner diameter 18.5 mm, in extremely fine condition.
Sir James Eyre, judge, baptized at Wells, Somerset, on 13 September 1734, the son of the Revd Thomas Eyre of Wells. In 1763 he was counsel for John Wilkes in the suit that established the illegality of general warrants (warrants for the arrest of un-named persons involved in an offence). He later (1787) became chief baron of the Court of Exchequer, and in 1793, chief justice of common pleas. He presided in 1794 over the famous state trials of members of the London Corresponding Society for alleged subversion of the government. He died on 6th July 1799, and, having no children, left the proceeds of his estate to his wife, Mary, his two surviving sisters, and his brother Dr Thomas Eyre. He was buried in Ruscombe parish church, Berkshire.
That's one of the wills I downloaded and read and couldn't find children....No wonder.
I haven't found anything to link the one from Wells with the other Eyres.
Glad to see it looks very likely that George's dau Elizabeth was the one who married Mr Earnshaw. That makes it more likely the other Elizabeth is Mrs Naylor!
Mary from Italy
05-02-12, 22:21
Yes, that's what I thought.
What's this about?
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=YQkMAAAAYAAJ&q=%22james+eyre%22+leeds&dq=%22james+eyre%22+leeds&hl=en&sa=X&ei=KuwuT47EMJSQ8gPgys36Dg&ved=0CDUQ6AEwATge
"The seal shown was found in the dust heap of the 'Hut-Camp' at 181st Street near Fort Washington." Painting of same:
http://www.archive.org/stream/relicsofrevoluti00boltuoft#page/n5/mode/2up
See page 18 in this book for a description of the place, beginning "The hills of Washington Heights and Inwood...". I used to live nearby.
But there seem to be an awful lot of Eyre crests. See page 192 here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=SsHCFIsiF8sC&pg=PA192&lpg=PA192&dq=Eyre+crest++leg+in+armour&source=bl&ots=g5hzGwu4fU&sig=hm3lXaoK4vdyKUOr09vACLSXacI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=SGwvT9KWK8f40gGTuF0&ved=0CD4Q6AEwBA#v=snippet&q=Eyre%20leg%20armour&f=false
Includes a Frederick James Eyre, Esquire, of Barton Terrace, North Adelaide, South Australia, with a leg in armour couped at the thigh etc.
Four chapters of Eyre genealogies in here:
http://www.archive.org/stream/publicationsofha38harluoft#page/n7/mode/2up/search/Eyre
I hesitate to muddy the waters, but you did say some of your Eyres wound up over here. And he's very cute:
http://bostonshumways.blogspot.com/2011/03/presenting.html
Are they talking about this James Eyre?
http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/19670626/person/877657265/photo/7216ea66-36b0-458b-9d9d-45ab9b837b82?src=records
And how come there's a Naylor in there?
Whole school of red herrings here probably. Did you know Wikipedia has no less than four James Eyres?
Thanks Janet...I think....lol
There is one James Eyre who seems to pop up in lots of trees and must have 30 kids. He died childless...lol
There's a tree on Ancestry that takes the Eyre line back through James in Leeds and then Edward....then a load more gens to Richard Le Eyre
Birth 1216 in Hope, England. :) They don't have Elizabeth b 1756 though! lol
If you google Richard le Eyre of Hope you will be kept very busy!!
The leg in armour legend!
http://www.eyrehistory.net/histeyre.php
My gran always said her Maynard family had something to do with rescuing Richard Coeur de Lion at some battle, so maybe your OH and I are related! lololol
Libby, do you have the actual date of George Naylor's burial?
ElizabethHerts
06-02-12, 10:29
Merry, I'm completely lost in this thread, and I don't know where George Naylor lived or when approximately he died.:o
However, you mentioned Cleckheaton earlier so I thought I'd give you this, just in case!
Parish Records Collection 1538-2005 - Burial
First name(s): George
Last name: NAYLOR
Date of burial: 10 Feb 1806
Age at death: 67
Calculated year of birth: 1739
Place of burial: Cleckheaton
Dedication: Independent Chapel
County: Yorkshire (West Riding)
Notes:
ElizabethHerts
06-02-12, 10:36
Does this have any relevance?
Will 1806 York Prerogative Court
214 Naylor George March House, Township of Liversedge Par, Birstall, Gent ??l 21?
The reference numbers are difficult to read and it looks as though they have been changed. I can download and send if necessary.
lol Nice one Elizabeth - that's him I think!
I've forgotten why I was asking!!!
UPDATE - Ah yes, I was going to look harder at the papers for a notice because I thought (wrongly, by the look of it) that we didn't know how old George natlor was - seems we do, so that's good!
Does this have any relevance?
Will 1806 York Prerogative Court
214 Naylor George March House, Township of Liversedge Par, Birstall, Gent ??l 21?
The reference numbers are difficult to read and it looks as though they have been changed. I can download and send if necessary.
Libby has that one. She tells me I transcribed it, but I don't remember that at all!! lol
ElizabethHerts
06-02-12, 10:41
Libby has that one. She tells me I transcribed it, but I don't remember that at all!! lol
Hopefully the burial and will tie up.
I think you have so much information, but it's difficult to tie it all together satisfactorily.
lol that's an understatement!!
Here's a summary of where we are!!
George Naylor b 1739 (place etc unknown) married Elizabeth Eyre (b about 1756 from burial record) at Birstall in 1795. Condition for George unknown but she is recorded as Miss. She is of Wakefield and he is of Cleckheaton.
The newspaper marriage notice says her father (name unfortunately not mentioned) is "a merchant of this town" and "this town" is Leeds as the publication was produced for/in Leeds.
James Eyre of Leeds was previously of Penistone (def the same man) and he had a dau Elizabeth bap there in 1756. James died in Nov 1805, but we can't find anything concrete to tie him 100% to Elizabeth Naylor.
ElizabethHerts
06-02-12, 11:01
There is this baptism in 1739:
Day: 07
Month: Apr
Year: 1739
Forenames: George
Surname: Naylor
Fathers Forenames: Joseph
Fathers occupation: -
Mothers Forenames: -
Birth Day:
Birth Month:
Birth Year:
Chapelry:
Place: Dewsbury
Description: All Saints
County: Yorkshire
Country: England
Address: Ossett
Record source: Huddersfield Baptisms
Data provider: Huddersfield & District Family History Society
ElizabethHerts
06-02-12, 11:02
Birstall and Dewsbury are less than 5 miles apart.
Could be the one, though Naylor is a bit like Smith around there! We would have to think of things to prove it.
*wonders if Joseph left a will*!!
ElizabethHerts
06-02-12, 11:17
Hmm, there are rather a lot of burials for "Joseph Naylor" in Dewsbury!
lol!!
I forgot to say in the summary that the Elizabeth who was bap in Penistone had a brother, Joseph, who lived at Marsh House, Liversedge which is the same house Elizabeth and George Naylor lived in (there were there until George's death in 1806 and Joseph lived there are least through the 1820s, maybe before?)
The children of James seem to be:
Edward 1754
Elizabeth 1756
Ann 1759
James 1763<<<<<<<< did this James marry Miss Brooke? I think perhaps not, but may have been his 1st cousin -see below!
Benjamin 1764
Joseph 1767
William 1769
The Leeds Mercury (Leeds, England), Saturday, November 10, 1832
Tues last aged 68 Mrs Eyre relict of James Eyre of Thurlstone and sister of John Brooke alderman of this town.
I was trying to tie together the above entries.
The transcribed (FS) records for the marriage of James Eyre and Catherine Brook in Jan 1795 has his age on what appears to be the banns entry (suggesting a birth in 1768/9). I think he may be a bit young to be the son of James (later of Leeds) in the above list of children, but no matter really as James (senr) had a brother called George (the one who had a daughter Elizabeth in 1757, the year after James had his Elizabeth!) and George had a son James in 1767, so the marriage may be for him.
Anyway, whichever of them married Catherine Brook, the point is, it's another bit of evidence that this Eyre family were well connected. Her brother, Alderman Brooke, lived in Hunset Lane, Leeds (same street at James Eyre senr). Brooke had a house built in Hunslet Lane in 1808 and here's a picture of it:
http://www.leodis.net/display.aspx?resourceIdentifier=8685
So, he wasn't short of a bob or two! lol
Entries from the Leeds Directory 1798:
Brook, John and Edward, merchants, Hunslet-lane
Eyre, Wm. merchant, Hunslet-lane
Eyre, Jns. merchant, Hunslet-lane
COMMON COUNCIL
John Brook, Hunslet-lane
[...]
Anyway, whichever of them married Catherine Brook, the point is, it's another bit of evidence that this Eyre family were well connected. Her brother, Alderman Brooke, lived in Hunset Lane, Leeds (same street at James Eyre senr). Brooke had a house built in Hunslet Lane in 1808 and here's a picture of it:
http://www.leodis.net/display.aspx?resourceIdentifier=8685
So, he wasn't short of a bob or two! lol
Oh wow, Merry, I saw that photo last night. Trust you to make the connection! I thought one of the comments was interesting. Apocryphal or not, I don't know, but it's the only explanation I've ever heard for the origin of the term "Leedsloiner":
Name: Dave Johnson
Comment: In the nineteenth century, Hunslet people pronounced Leeds Lane as 'Leeds Loin'. Apparently this is where the term 'Loiner' (for a Leeds person)is derived. In fact, true 'Loiners' are people born within a short distance of 'Leeds Loin' - rather like true Cockneys being born within the sound of Bow Bells!http://www.leodis.net/display.aspx?resourceIdentifier=8685&DISPLAY=FULL
I wish I could remember where I came across another remark that the street in question, being a major thoroughfare into an outlying area rapidly becoming fast adjoined to the city, was alternately known as Hunslet Lane (by the residents of Leeds) and Leeds Lane (by the residents of Hunslet).
What's this about?
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=YQkMAAAAYAAJ&q=%22james+eyre%22+leeds&dq=%22james+eyre%22+leeds&hl=en&sa=X&ei=KuwuT47EMJSQ8gPgys36Dg&ved=0CDUQ6AEwATge
I was just investigating the 'other man' listed with James Eyre. I think his name should be spelled Emanuel Elam. He was a Leeds Merchant and a Quaker who retired with a fortune of £200,000.
There's a court case reported in the Leeds Mercury about his will. Emanuel died in 1796 and the court case is 1818!! I haven't read it all, but it would seem there was speculation he may have been 'forced' to sign a codicil to his will a couple of hours before he died. I gather when he died he was elderly, so he would have been a contemporary of Libby's James Eyre.
I guess that doesn't mean Libby's James is definitely the one with the super fortune.............
I've never heard of a Leedsloiner!
I had read this before though....
I wish I could remember where I came across another remark that the street in question, being a major thoroughfare into an outlying area rapidly becoming fast adjoined to the city, was alternately known as Hunslet Lane (by the residents of Leeds) and Leeds Lane (by the residents of Hunslet).
Oooh, Emanuel Elam and James Eyre on this one:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ruthann/UK/leeds_infirmary_1772.htm
And James's donation is for more money!
I have George Naylor's will. It is that burial in 1806.
George Naylor married Elizabeth Eyre (spinster according to the paper) 14th May 1795
According to their burial notices, George was born 1739 and Elizabeth 1756.
They had two children
George born 21st May 1796
Elizabeth born 2nd June 1797.....both at Cleckheaton.
In George Naylor's will, he does not mention his son at all so I presume he died although his burial is not at Cleckheaton. This makes me think they may have moved around at least once........or been visiting when he died. He would have been 10 years old when his father died so it wasn't a case of dis-owning him in the will.
The young Elizabeth married Myles Ariel 12th Sept 1815 in St Johns Wakefield.
Her mother at some stage moved to Bristol (where Myles lived) as she died there in 1829.
I have the wills of all those mentioned.
The bit I'm having trouble with is not finding Elizabeth on any other trees (except Ariel ones)
We know there was a baptism for an Elizabeth Eyre at the right time and yet it is not mentioned on any trees I've found.
Just a little point, but odd??
Mary from Italy
06-02-12, 19:36
I've just been looking at the West Yorkshire archives' online catalogue. I haven't found anything useful in the deeds register so far, but it's worth bookmarking, because it looks as though it'll have online indexes and transcriptions in future:
http://www.archives.wyjs.org.uk/archives-ancestry.asp
I did find this annoying paragraph, about the Ancestry West Yorkshire records:
The following Church of England parishes have not been included at the request of the Incumbent and will not appear in the entries on Ancestry.co.uk :
Bradford Diocese:
BDP6 Bierley, St John
BDP92 Thornton, St James
Wakefield Diocese:
WDP31 Hartshead, St Peter
WDP66 Liversedge, Christchurch
WDP88 Heckmondwike, St James & St Saviour
WDP88 Norristhorpe, All Souls
WDP193 Roberttown, All Saints
Mary from Italy
06-02-12, 19:41
Just had a look at the Leeds tithe maps in case there's anything interesting, but there's nothing jumping out at me; they're perhaps a bit too late:
http://www.tracksintime.wyjs.org.uk/
Mary............according to George Naylor's will, his Marsh House was at Liversedge in the parish of Birstall, County of York.
That's 1805 when it was written. He died 1806.
In his wife's will of 1827 (died 1829) she gives all her property at Wakefield and all her property at Cleckheaton to her daughter, Elizabeth Ariel. It doesn't say exactly what or where.
George Naylor in his will, does give all Elizabeth's "own fortune which I have already or am entitled to receive"....so we know she had some money before marrying George.
I've been searching for the area in Yorkshire that has Leeds, Cleckheaton, Wakefield, Penistone, Ossett, Dewsbury.
Anyone know?
If not, I might throw a new thread just to ask the Yorkshire lot and it can be deleted or added to this or something.....lol
Another thought....
In George Naylor's will, he gives Marsh house to Elizabeth, as well as his cattle, etc, but doesn't mention any other real estate.
In Elizabeth's will, she has property in Wakefield and Cleckheaton.
The bit I'm having trouble with is not finding Elizabeth on any other trees (except Ariel ones)
We know there was a baptism for an Elizabeth Eyre at the right time and yet it is not mentioned on any trees I've found.
Just a little point, but odd??
I don't see a problem with the baptism - it's on Ancestry so I can see the image and that is perfectly clear. Its also showing as an extracted entry on the IGI. I've seen two trees (identical to each other!) that don't include Elizabeth, but they don't include Ann either - can't think why not!
I've never thought to worry when someone elses tree isn't the same as mine as long as I'm right!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol
I know Merry........I'd just like someone else to think that Elizabeth belonged with those other children....lol
I've seen both images and she is there and I can't find a death for her as a child.
I've been searching for the area in Yorkshire that has Leeds, Cleckheaton, Wakefield, Penistone, Ossett, Dewsbury.
Anyone know?
Do you mean the name of the area?
Well, the name of the records office or FH group. I looked on the Yorkshire FH groups site and went through some, but couldn't find Birstall at all.
ElizabethHerts
06-02-12, 20:22
Libby, does this page from Genuki help?
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/WRY/Birstall/index.html
Is this the kind of information you're fishing for, Libby?
https://www.familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Birstall,_Yorkshire
There is a section: "Probate records
Records of wills, administrations, inventories, indexes, etc. were filed by the court with jurisdiction over this parish. Go to Yorkshire Probate Records to find the name of the court having primary jurisdiction. Scroll down in the article to the section Court Jurisdictions by Parish."
Sort of Janet.....lol
I think Wakefield is the place I need.
I'm trying to find who has the records that Ancestry and family Search don't have, or if they are kept by the individual churches.
Is there anyway of finding out what property someone owned back then?
Maybe if I found what Elizabeth owned, I could tie it to the family.
Would there be any records about the will that show more detail?
Mary from Italy
06-02-12, 21:22
Well, the name of the records office or FH group.
It depends which records you want: do you mean parish records?
Mary from Italy
06-02-12, 21:23
Is there anyway of finding out what property someone owned back then?
Maybe if I found what Elizabeth owned, I could tie it to the family.
Would there be any records about the will that show more detail?
Very old wills sometimes have an inventory attached, but I don't think there'd be one in the 19th century. Apart from that, all you can do is search TNA and the online catalogues of the various local Record Offices, plus the usual sources like Google and Google books. The tithe maps I mentioned do show owners and occupiers of property, but they start in about 1838. There was an Elizabeth Eyre listed, but not in the Cleckheaton area (the site I linked to only has tithe maps for Leeds and the immediately surrounding area).
Thanks Mary.
I saw that map with the 3 properties, but my girl was dead by then.
Just found an Eyre page from a person doing a one-name study. No Ann or Elizabeth, so I've emailed and asked why not???
That's quite a few emails roaming around now.
Found something of minor interest, but no time to type. back in 30 mins.
OK...I might wash up...lol
Whether it's useful or not depends on what else can be found! lol
You mentioned that the people with online Eyre trees don't seem to have recorded Elizabeth or Ann as children of James Eyre, whilst they do have the sons. I thought I should see what happened to Ann.
From Ancestry's West Yorks PRs
St Peter's, Leeds
14th Dec 1787 marriage of Ann Eyre spinster otp and Pearson Walton of the parish of St Margaret's, London by licence.
Both signed. Witnesses, Elizabeth Eyre and James Eyre
I did compare the sigs of Elizabeth Eyre, the witness, and Elizabeth Eyre who married George Naylor and they are neither extremely similar nor dissimilar, imho :( 8 years between though!
I think it's fairly likely this is the same Ann who was baptised at Penistone in 1759 as that Ann's paternal grandmother was also a Walton (Elizabeth Walton m Edward Eyre in 1718, parents of James)
After the above marriage Pearson and Ann went to London and had these three children:
Ann Eyre Walton bap 16 Aug 1793 at St Mary Newington
Pearson Walton bap 2 Jul 1794 at St Mary Newington Bur 1 Oct 1794 St Margaret Lothbury
Lydia Walton bap 3 Aug 1798 at St John Hackney
That's as far as I've got at the moment.....
None of those baptisms or the sons burial give any further info except to say Pearson jr was aged 4 months at burial.
First child, Ann Eyre Walton married William Tootal 7 Oct 1812 Leyton, Essex (no image for that one)
Then Ann Eyre Tootal, widow, married Robert Drake, bachelor of Wakefield, at St Helen Sandal Magna Yorkshire, by licence. Witnesses Mary Eyre and Pearson Walton on 14 Dec 1818 (her parents 31st wedding anniversary)
Well, that Lydia keeps popping up. It's not a rare name, but it's not that common.
And Joseph Eyre and Elizabeth Radford's daughter Eleanor was born 1808 Leyton Essex.
Three children with Wm Tootal back in Yorkshire:
Ann Walton Tootal b abt 1813 Wakefield, All Saints bap 16 Aug 1813 William and Ann Eyre Tootal
Pearson Tootal b 24 May 1814 Wakefield, All Saints bap 2 Oct 1815 William & Ann-Eyre Tootal
William Tootal b abt 1815 Wakefield, All Saints bap 2 Oct 1815 William & Ann Eyre Tootal
William Tootal was buried in Wakefield Holy Trinity 9 Dec 1816 aged 28. His address is Kirkgate, Wakefield.
Robert Drake was a cornfactor and they lived at Kirkgate, Wakefield. Found four children:
Mary Sykes Drake b 7 Sep 1819 Wakefield, All Saints bap 14 Sep 1820 Robert & Ann Eyre Drake
Sarah Brereton Drake b 7 Aug 1820 Wakefield, All Saints bap 14 Sep 1820 Robert & Ann Eyre Drake
Robert Walton Drake b 7 Feb 1822 Wakefield, All Saints bap 18 Aug 1823 Robert & Ann Eyre Drake
Lydia Jackson Drake b 28 May 1824 Wakefield, All Saints bap 20 Apr 1829 Robert & Ann Eyre Drake
I don't know where I'm going with this so it seems bettern to write all down. :o
And Joseph Eyre and Elizabeth Radford's daughter Eleanor was born 1808 Leyton Essex.
Ah! Didn't remember that! Clifton would have been better! lol
Looking on the non-con reg shows some Tootal families (too early for these) in Yorkshire
No PCC will for William Tootal.
You little beauty!!!!
Will for Pearson Walton. What's a bet I can't read it....lol
The will is dated 1840 Address....Walton House Sandal Magna Yorkshire. Sandal Magne was the place those 1658 Tootals were from on the non-con reg...
Off to get the will. Back soon.
If you can't read it I'll have a go!
here is his burial:
Pearson Walton aged 78 Sandal Magna, St Helen 9 Jan 1841
So, we need him to leave a small token from his (late?) wife to her sister's rich descendants in Bristol? !!! lol
Well he has 12 pages of will and 3 codicils.....lol
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
lol And I bet about four lines of mild interest?!!!! pmsl
I guess this is his wife, Ann nee Eyre:
Ann Walton aged 78 bur Sandal Magna, St Helen 16 Jan 1838
Can't see anything about his dear wife's sister in the will. Hard for me to read, but he gives everyone something...lol. His footman, his cook etc. Lots of talk of canals..
He has estates in Essex as well as York.
lol Well, it would have been a miracle if there had been a Bristol mention.
I think this is his home (despite the narative not mentioning him)
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=walton+manor+sandal+magna&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1024&bih=431&tbm=isch&tbnid=kE4Ptdegp27uNM:&imgrefurl=http://www.jss.org.uk/middle-walton/middle-walton-gallery-2.html&docid=QY3GXKWeZTxGcM&imgurl=http://www.jss.org.uk/middle-walton/images/walton-manor-3-20020703-l.jpg&w=720&h=576&ei=t_cwT4-cOIe-0QXIhrC1Bw&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=187&sig=107266377278154678300&page=1&tbnh=111&tbnw=149&start=0&ndsp=12&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0&tx=77&ty=49
Did you sort out all those names in George Naylors will? I only remember Linfit or something like that!
Do not talk about that stupid will. He goes on about his sister this and sister in law that.....lol
Joannah Linfitt...sister in law....West Molton
Joshua Naylor the younger son of my late brother, Thomas
Thomas Naylor of Sheffield, grandson of late bro Thomas
The children of "my late said sister Linfitt" ???? "and my late brother in law Benjamin Robinson of Measeborough" (Was Sister Linfitt Joannah????) Was Ben Robinson her OH????? or someone different??
Joseph Horner baker of Wakefield
William Linfitt woolsatpler of Wakefield
the children of my brother in law Joshua Robinson, late of Measeborough
the children of my late brother in law William Linfitt
My cousins Ann Fotherby, Sarah Priestly, Ann 'Roafitt' (looks like that anyway...don't think it's Linfitt.
the children of my late sister Sarah Pogmore
Samuel Thompson was appointed as co-guardian of his daughter with his wife.
Go figure..................
Would you like me to look at that will again? (if it's not too dfficult to email?)
I don't have anything to do today!! lol
Feel free. I'll send it to you now....Ta
lol I bet this will stop my endless random postings in their tracks!
Johanna Robinson married William Linfitt 25th Aug 1761. Johanna supposedly born Wrath on Dearne. That's from an email reply to a tree with Robinson/Linfitt.
No idea if or where they fit.
The sender has no more info.
It's arrived! Thanks.
It was actually the original I was after as, since you mentioned it was me who transcribed it :eek:, I was worrying about the spellings of some of those names!!
Mary from Italy
07-02-12, 10:02
Just catching up - I remember coming across some Tootals when I was searching yesterday, but I can't remember where.
I also had a look at Eyre trees yesterday, and I'm sure one of them showed Pearson ancesters.
I'll have another look today.
*takes a Valium* ;(
Later.....lol
Mary from Italy
07-02-12, 10:46
Johanna supposedly born Wrath on Dearne.
Wath :) :)
Mary from Italy
07-02-12, 11:46
Now I remember where I found the Tootals.
If you remember, Askham Eyre, son of George and Anna and probably the brother of Elizabeth Earnshaw, was in partnership with James Eyre of Thurlstone (Penistone), as corn millers and oil makers, and the partnership was dissolved in 1795.
Askham later went into partnership with John and Thomas Tootal, Joshua Swallow and James Mallalieu as oil drawers in Thurlstone and Wakefield. Mallalieu pulled out of the business in 1808; Askham pulled out in 1812, and the others carried on the business.
Askham went bankrupt in about 1813.
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/all=eyre+tootal;sort=oldest/start=1
There's a Chancery case Tootal v. Eyre, 1812/13, presumably relating to the bankruptcy.
Mary from Italy
07-02-12, 11:52
Askham's probable sister Elizabeth Eyre married John Earnshaw in Penistone in 1776, so she won't be the Elizabeth Eyre who witnessed the marriage between Ann Eyre and Pearson Walton in 1787.
Elizabeth and John married by licence; he was a mercer from Wakefield.
I'm having trouble reading the witnesses' names; possibly Geo. Eyre and Jane or Marie Eyre.
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=2256&iid=32355_248903-00125&fn=John&ln=Earnshaw&st=d&ssrc=&pid=6434751
Mary from Italy
07-02-12, 12:17
Poor old Askham is buried in the Rotherham Cholera Burial Ground:
http://www.rotherhamweb.co.uk/h/cholera.htm
Mary from Italy
07-02-12, 12:30
Not sure if this helps at all, but Askham Eyre, son of George of Penistone, had a sister Clementina, who had a grandson called Walton Tennant.
Askham's probable sister Elizabeth Eyre married John Earnshaw in Penistone in 1776, so she won't be the Elizabeth Eyre who witnessed the marriage between Ann Eyre and Pearson Walton in 1787.
Elizabeth and John married by licence; he was a mercer from Wakefield.
I'm having trouble reading the witnesses' names; possibly Geo. Eyre and Jane or Marie Eyre.
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=2256&iid=32355_248903-00125&fn=John&ln=Earnshaw&st=d&ssrc=&pid=6434751
I think the witnesses are Geo. Eyre and Jane Eyre. George had a dau Jane bap 1763.
Mary from Italy
07-02-12, 15:05
These snippets from Familiae minorum gentium look promising:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?ei=aU0xT8_jHIiV-waakPW8BQ&id=NJX4UW_d37oC&dq=%22elizabeth+walton%22+%22Familiae+minorum+gent ium%22&q=%22elizabeth+walton%22#search_anchor
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=S21KAAAAYAAJ&q=%22pearson+walton%22+%22naylor%22&dq=%22pearson+walton%22+%22naylor%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=aEsxT7D2MpHV4QTZofiZBQ&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA
Mary from Italy
07-02-12, 15:26
Here's the full pedigree (look at pages 884 and 885)
http://www.archive.org/stream/familiaeminorumg03hunt#page/939/mode/1up/search/eyre
Mary from Italy
07-02-12, 15:34
So if I've understood that pedigree correctly (and if it's reliable), James Eyre of Thurlstone, b. 1727, son of Edward Eyre (of Thurlstone and later of Heeley) and Elizabeth Walton, married Mary Smith, and their children included Elizabeth who married ... Naylor of Yorkshire, Ann who married Pearson Walton and Lydia who married Thomas Jackson of Tulleydovey.
Mary from Italy
07-02-12, 15:39
It seems likely that George b.1730, son of Edward Eyre and Elizabeth Walton and brother of James, is the one who married Anna Askham in 1757.
Hooray!
Now I can go to the minus 8 degree football match without thinking about this!!! lolol
Mary from Italy
07-02-12, 15:49
From the IGI:
JAMES EYRE
Male
Marriages:
Spouse: MARY SMITH
Marriage: 01 OCT 1753 Ecclesfield, Yorkshire, England
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