View Full Version : If anyone is bored...
I'm going to get back to this but I have to go out for a while first.
1841 census has a record for John Fargus b abt 1786 in Bristol. He's there with his family, including son, Henry. Being 1841 there is no occupation for John.
1851 has Henry and his wife Isabella, still in Bristol. Henry is an auctioneer.
The estate of Myles Ariel was auctioned off by "Messrs Fargus and Son" 23rd Nov 1840 in Bristol, so I'm presuming it's this family.
What I'm looking for is............ any connection between the Fargus family and a CLARK family.
As I said......only if you're bored.....lol
Would there be any connection if the Fargus's were auctioneers?
A quick google there's lots of info here
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~sheilaweston/fargus/bristolcro.htm
Being 1841 there is no occupation for John.
New specs needed, Libby?!! John and Henry are both listed as auctioneers in 1841!
New specs needed, Libby?!! John and Henry are both listed as auctioneers in 1841!
New specs, Merry...just been to optometrist...lol.
Now I still want a connection to the Clarks (and not your lot...lol)
Thanks Jay.....I may be away a bit longer now...
I looked through the Bristol papers BMD columns for entries with both surnames without any luck.
What were the Clarks? Solicitors, Drs, Clergy? Woudn't they think auctioneers were a bit beyond the pale socially for there to be anything more than a business connection?!!
The Clarks were all those, Merry.
It's just this auction catalogue for Myles Ariel's stuff. It was a couple of months after his death and Lucretia auctioned everything. That doesn't mean much...but...the prices that were paid seem very cheap and I'm just going into 'thinking out loud' mode....
Were you thinking they helped Lucretia sell off the personal estate she didn't want to keep, cheaply, to avoid payment of death duties? I think real estate wasn't included in Death duties until the late 1850s, but I don't know how significant death duties would have been for Myles's personal estate.
Surely you still end up with less money if you sell off property cheaply even if you then end up paying less tax? Unless there was a line under which you didn't pay, but cross the line and you paid a % on everything?
Merry.......this is the Ariels and Clarks.
I don't know what I think.....lol
Something about the whole saga is not right and I haven't put my finger on it yet.
What did Myles say about his personal estate in his will?
Merry, this is the first bit of Myles' will...
This is the last will and testament of me Myles Ariel of the city and county of Bristol. West India Broker. I hereby direct all my debts funeral and testamentary expenses to be paid by my executors hereinafter named and hereby confirm the settlement made on my marriage with my present wife Lucretia Ariel. I hereby give and bequeath to my said dear wife all my wines, spirits, liquors and all my table and bed linen and all my wearing apparel which shall be in and about any dwelling house in Berkeley Square in the city and county of Bristol at the time of my decease or in and about any house which at the time of my death shall be my usual or permanent place of abode for her own absolute use and benefit. I hereby give and bequeath unto Robert Leonard Dry Salter and Edward Jarrett Ransford Hat Manufacturer both of the city and county of Bristol their executors admors assignees all my household goods furniture plates china watches trinkets printed books pictures and other utensils and effects (save and except the goods and chattels herein before given to my said wife) upon trust that the said Robert Leonard and Edward Jarrett Ransford and the survivor of them his executors admors and assignees shall permit and suffer my said wife to use possess and enjoy the same during the term of her natural life
Well, perhaps she just didn't like any of his stuff?!!
I did notice that the auctioneers regularly advertised their auctions of personal and business property in the Bristol newspapers, but there's nothing about this event in Nov 1840.
Do you think Lucretia caused his apoplexy?!!
Are you in touch with anyone else descended from other Myles children?
Not sure who (if anyone) caused anything....
In touch with one other. She is from Elizabeth Naylor Ariel (who married Henry Farr) That was where Agatha went before she left for France. That lady doesn't know anything extra.
I'm really just rehashing in case something pops out of the woodwork.
I can't quite understand ........
Myles gives Lucretia all his wine etc
then
he gives the pictures etc for her to use.
Can she sell them???
can't quite understand ........
Myles gives Lucretia all his wine etc
then
he gives the pictures etc for her to use.
Can she sell them???
I hadn't properly taken that part in before. Just read it to OH and he said "Oh, so she didn't take any notice then?" lol
Does the will state what should happen to the pictures, books etc when Lucretia died or remarried?
When my grandfather died he stipulated in his will that if his house was sold then the money from the sale must be used in full to buy more property (the inference being that my grandmother and aunt should not fritter it all away!). Sadly, whilst they didn't fritter the money away exactly, they did buy and sell quite a few times ove the following years and the moves were always downsizing, so when my aunt eventually died her last property was only worth about a fifth of the one my grandfather lived in!
Just going to have a look....
Of course........nowhere on the auction catalogue does it say Lucretia is actually selling them.
What is says is
(under all the carry on about how wonderful everything is)
Valuable and Interesting Effects
of the late Myles Ariel Esq, Deceased
And which, by Direction of the Executors, will be
Submitted to Public Competition
by Messrs Fargus and Son
blah, blah, ....
Here's the next bit......
use possess and enjoy the same during the term of her natural life of And I direct that within two calender months after my decease my said trustees or the survivor of they his executors admors or assignees shall cause an inventory to be made of all the goods and chattels therein before given to them my said trustees upon trust as aforesaid and that my said wife shall sign such inventory accompanied with an undertaking for the delivery of the goods and chattels comprised therein by her executors or advisors upon or immediately after her decease to my said trustees or the survivor of them his executors admors or assignees and that my said wife shall deliver the said inventory and undertaking signed by her to my said trustees or the survivor of them his executors admors or assignees who shall sign a copy of such inventory and shall deliver the same so signed to my said wife And I hereby declare that the said last mentioned goods and chattels shall immediately after the decease of my said wife fall into and become part of my Residuary personal estate.
I'll leave it there for now Merry.
I really have a bad headache (must be the needing of new specs...lol)
Thanks...will come back in the morning.
kiterunner
27-01-12, 12:36
Maybe Lucretia didn't want to keep all the stuff?
Nothing to do with Myles and Lucretia, but I was just wondering if the names Podmore and Ewart come from the Clark side of the tree?
I haven't seen Ewart in the Ariel side. Agatha's daughter was Rosalie Ewart Clark, so presume that's from the Clarks.
Podmore also only pops up in Agatha's son.
Podmore also only pops up in Agatha's son.
And possibly in Edward Clark's mother? (wasn't Edward's father Thomas Clark?)
groom's name: Thomas Clark
bride's name: Lucretia Podmore
marriage date: 19 Mar 1799
marriage place: Bedminster, Somerset, England
indexing project (batch) number: I01816-4
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1849427
name: Lucretia Podmore
gender: Female
birth date: 04 Nov 1778
birthplace: BROAD MEAD BAPTIST,BRISTOL,GLOUCESTER,ENGLAND
father's name: James Podmore
mother's name: Hannah Robinson
indexing project (batch) number: C09251-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 825380
Yep.....
Are you going somewhere with this Merry????
I have a feeling you are thinking..................which is just as well as I'm not...
No, I just did a search for the various known surnames (the ones I can remember!) marrying Podmore or Ewart and that's what I found!
I'm off to find Myles' first wife's will. The one he overturned.
I wonder if that Robinson name on the baptism for Lucretia is a middle name or a surname? If it's a surname then this could be the marriage:
groom's name: James Podmore
bride's name: Hannah Robinson
marriage date: 18 Dec 1770
marriage place: Old Swinford,Worcester,England
indexing project (batch) number: M04027-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 533996
Not sure Merry, although often the non-cons give the woman's surname.
The Genealogist is down at the mo......
Lucretia Podmore 1778 parents...James and Hannah
Maternal grandies....Jeremiah and Sarah Robinson.
You don't need the Clarks going back, do you? I just thought it might help to know that Podmore WAS a name from their side and not a missing bt of the Ariels! No luck with Ewart!
So...... what about this will then?
Still looking..had 3 phone calls...
Here's the first bit..
This is the last will and testament or testamentary writing of me Elizabeth the wife of Myles Ariel of the city of Bristol Broker made and published pursuant to the power and authority or several powers and authorities contained in the indenture or deed of Settlement made and executed on or previous to my intermarriage with my said husband the said Myles Ariel.
That tells me she had her own money. Her mother leaves just about everything to her a few years earlier.
And the last bit, including the bit added later.
In Witness whereof I the said Testatrix Elizabeth Ariel have to this my last will and Testament contained in three sides of three sheets of paper to the first two thereof set my hand and to this third and last my hand and seal this nineteenth day of June in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and twenty three. – Elizabeth Ariel – (seal) Signed sealed published and declared by the above named Testatrix Elizabeth Ariel as and for her last Will and Testament in the presence of us who in her presence at her request and in the presence of each other of us have hereunto subscribed our names as witnesses. Samuel Goodhand Sol. Bristol – Wm Edward Collingwood – Thomas Clark Clerks in Messrs Stephens and Goodhand, Sol. Bristol.
On the 1st of June 1839 Admon, with the will annexed of the Goods, Chattels and Credits of Elizabeth Ariel, wife of Myles Ariel, late of the city of Bristol deceased was granted to Robert Leonard and Edward Jarrett Ransford the Executors having been first sworn by Canon duly to administer. The said Myles Ariel the lawful husband of the said deceased and as such the only person entitled to her personal estate over which she had us disposing power and concerning which she is dead intestate having first consented as by Acts of Courts appears.
Here's the main old thread about this will:
http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/Forum/showthread.php?t=630&highlight=Edward+Jarrett+Ransford
What were you thinking about it today, Libby? (and don't think you can pass me your headache!)
Just rehashing Merry.
There should have been a court case regarding Liz's will, shouldn't there?
There's a stack of Ariel vs Whoever in Google, but I didn't ever find this one.
I looked in the newspapers and the gazette without any luck.
anne fraser
29-01-12, 12:52
The Fargas's seem to have been an interesting family but the connection is liely to have been through the Merchant venturers or some such: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archibald_Fargus Here are some photos of Brunswick Square tombstones: http://www.bristolinformation.co.uk/srch/srchit.asp?list=list&gdoc=gs&howmany=200
anne fraser
29-01-12, 13:54
Not what you wanted but also found this by googling: http://www.dnw.co.uk/medals/auctionarchive/searchcataloguearchive/itemdetail.lasso?itemid=41456
OK, so I am bored!
I was just re-reading the newspaper article about the criminal conversation between Agatha and Mr Dunsford....
Libby, as you mentioned Elizabeth Ariel's will, this bit seems a bit odd:
After the conclusion of the Attorney-General's address, the marriage settlement was put in and proved by the attorney who had drawn it, and also a certain notice to the trustees under it. In the deed it was conditioned that £5,000 should be in trust for the sole use and benefit of Mrs Clark, and also certain property which she was to succeed to under the wills of her grandmother and mother .......blah, blah......
But her mother's will was overturned, wasn't it??
Where did you find that Merry?????
Is it time I re-read as well??
Thanks Anne....off to look at those.
I can't work out that last bit on the Admon above saying Elizabeth was intestate. How could she be if she wasn't allowed to make a will?
And how did she using her husband's solicitors and executors??
Anne...the Brunswick Sq ones include Liz Naylor and her daughter Liz Ariel. They are the people we are talking about.
I've seen that site loads of times and just realised there is a DUNSFORD there......
Where did you find that Merry?????
Is it time I re-read as well??
Thanks Anne....off to look at those.
Well, I was reading it in The Manchester Guardian, but I've also seen it in The Times and The Bristol Mercury and probably other places!
I read about the divorce originally in The Times. I remembr more about Dunsford supposedly getting money....lol
Sorry...I can't work it out.
Elizabeth Naylor leaves money etc to Elizabeth Ariel (her daughter) and her grandkids.
Got to kick OH off the other computer...It's got the wills...lol.
Liz Ariel dies in 1837. I wonder when Myles started proceedings against the will??
Maybe he was already having it off with Lucretia.......lol Wish the death cert for Liz had more info...
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