I'm sure I've been told this before

[Asa]

but what is the difference between being married "in the parish church according to the rites and ceremonies of the Catholic Church in England" and being married in the parish church according to the rites and ceremonies of the Church of England"?

I'm looking at a page of marriages in London 1915 and two have the former and two the latter.

[tenterfieldjulie]

I would presume the first is a rite of what we call the Roman Catholic church (the head being the Pope), the second is a rite of the Anglican Church (the head being the Archbishop of Canterbury/Queen Elizabeth II).

[Asa]

Sorry Julie - didn't make it very clear :I - I'm looking at 2 pages of marriages taking place at the same church in London Jan - Apr 1915 - so four marriages and two are the former and two the latter.

[HarrysMum]

If it was more modern (post 1970s) I'd say it was a marriage of a Catholic and CofE and both ministers officiated, but 1915 is too early for that.

[Asa]

It also seems that most of the marriages in this section are Catholic Church in England rather than C of E. Odd. It's St Michael Bingfield Street, Islington.

[Asa]

Perhaps it's just wording. I notice that the two R&C of the C of E ones are a different vicar to the others.

[tenterfieldjulie]

I wonder if it is High Church Anglican (Catholic) and Low Church Anglican (Church of England)?

[Olde Crone]

Julie

That's how I would read it too and I think it means the Anglo Catholic marriage has a nuptial mass, whereas the C of E (low church) liturgy doesn't.

My local C of E parish church was until very recently a very high Anglican church and had "bells and smells" lol, much to the annoyance of many locals, who used to travel two miles to another, lower church, so as not to have the anglo-catholic service forced on them. In the town it was said that the Parish church was higher than the Roman Catholic church.

OC

[Asa]

Thanks Julie and OC - I think it must be that and that it's a stand in minister with the CofE rites and ceremonies

[tenterfieldjulie]

Sometimes it also can mean if there is a different minister/priest from the usual one, that he is related to the couple or a close friend?

[Sue at the seaside]

I don't know why there is the difference, but is it possible that the Catholic word should be
catholic (little c) meaning universal as in the creeds used in C of E "Holy catholic church"?

[Olde Crone]

As far as I understand it, it is more or less up to the Vicar whch service he uses in the church, but a couple marrying might "only" want the C of E marriage ceremony, not the Anglo-catholic one, and as they are paying for the service, presumably they can choose which one the Vicar performs.

My understanding of the difference between the roman Catholic church and the Anglo-catholic church is that one recognises the Pope as God's direct representative on earth, and head of the church. the anglo-catholic church recognises the reigning monarch as head of the church and god's representative on earth. I think there are some small differences of dogma and so on - something about transubstantiation in the host??

Anyway, it was all down to Henry V111!

OC

[Janet Chiltern Borders]

I think you will find that Anglo Catholic will relate to very high church of England rather than catholic. I am not sure that people call themselves anglo catholic these days, but years back it was a distinction that marked out the high church C of E from the low church C of E.

As I understand it, no C of E believes in transubstantiation, which is the changing of the wine and water into the blood of Christ at the consecration of the bread and wine. C of E look on that as symbolic, whereas catholics actually believe it has changed.

Anglo catholics have incense and all the other rituals appertaining to Catholicism without the full beliefs.

Janet

[Merry]

As I understand it, no C of E believes in transubstantiation, which is the changing of the wine and water into the blood of Christ at the consecration of the bread and wine. C of E look on that as symbolic, whereas catholics actually believe it has changed.



I remember I was taught at school that the above was the most major difference between Catholics and C of E.

[Janet Chiltern Borders]

Sorry, a correction from me. I should have said that:

"Transubstantiation is the changing of Bread and Wine into the Body and Blood of Christ at the Consecration in the Mass".

Yes Merry that is what I was always taught!

Janet

[Merry]

I didn't even notice your variation in the original post! :o

[Asa]

Well, I've learnt something. I know about transubstantiation, High Church and Low Church (I can remember old ladies talking about someone being very one or the other in disapproving tones) but I didn't know that it extended to a variation in the marriage service - or really that priests had that much choice in the matter.

Thanks everyone:-)