PARRY family, wolverhampton

[0161JACKO]

Trying to find a birth certificate of Alfred Parry,born 1862 in Wolverhampton,his marriage cert shows a name for his father,but you can not read it,but surname is Parry. On the 1881 census it shows Alfred, also a sibling called William ( birth cert wanted,),born 1857 in Wolverhampton, also his mother Charlotte,( birth cert ,also marriage cert wanted) born Lucton ,herefordshire in 1835, Charlotte is shown as a widow, can not find this family on the 1871 or 1861 census .Do not know Charlottes maiden name ,or christian name of husband other than Parry. Any help will be much appreciated, :confused:

[kiterunner]

Would it be possible for you to scan or photograph Alfred's marriage certificate and post up the part of it that shows father's name on here, please? Also, can you tell us who Alfred married, and when, please?

[kiterunner]

Possible family in 1871 (apart from the surname, obviously!)
Bell St, Cleveland Passage, Wolverhampton
William Lambtail Head M 66 Hawker Cambridgeshire Cambridge
Charlotte do Wife do 48
William do Son 15 Staffordshire Wolverhampton
James do Son 12 Do Do
Alfred do Son 9 do do

I'll see if I can find them in 1881 to rule them out, also in 1861 to see if it gives Charlotte's birthplace.

[kiterunner]

Hmmm, an 1861 family:
Barratts Yard, Cleveland St., Wolverhampton
William Game Head Mar 47 Greengrocer Staffordshire W'hampton
Charlott Do Wife M 38 Do Do
Richd Do Son 13 Scholar Do Do
William Do Son 5 Do Do Do
James Do Son 2 Do Do

I know there is a different surname yet again (mistranscribed as Ganie on ancestry), but the Parry family do have a Charles Game with them in 1881 (age 45, born St Giles Cambridgeshire) so it's looking possible.

[Merry]

Ooooh, this is the way I was going, but I have to go out........

*dashes*

[kiterunner]

There is a William Game death registered in Wolverhampton Jul-Sep 1872 age 67.

[Merry]

Baptism from the Cambs FHS index:

1807 GAME William 24d s. of William & Mary Camb. St.Giles *

Charles Game who was with the family 1881/91 said he was born in the parish of St Giles in Cambs too.

[kiterunner]

There's a baptism of James Game, son of William and Charlotte, 25 Dec 1859 at Wolverhampton St Peter, abode North Street, occupation carpenter.

(From this site:
http://www.wolverhamptonhistory.org.uk/resources/indexes

[kiterunner]

Charlotte Parry death registered Jul-Sep 1888 Wolverhampton, age 67.

[Merry]

Births Sep 1858
Game James Wolverhampton 6b 362

[kiterunner]

Oooh... how about this family in 1851?!
Tedds(?) Street, Wolverhampton
Sharlot Lamsdale Head Widow 34 Laundress Herefordshire Luckton (?)
Richard Lamsdale Son 4 Staffordshire Wolverhampton.

[kiterunner]

And could this be the same William (also in 1851)? He has a son Charles about the right age to be the one on the 1881 census:
Comet Yard, St Giles, Cambridge
William Game Head Mar 40 Labourer Cambridge
Maria Do Wife Mar 32 Do
Charles Do Son 14 Labourer Do
Joseph Do Son 12 Do Do
Frederick Do Son 10 Do Do
William Do Son 2 Do
Richard Do Son 1m Do
Ann M Do Dau 8 Do
Harriot Do Dau 4 Do

Have to see if we can find them in 1861 to see if their William is still with them or not.

[kiterunner]

I can't find them in 1861 at the moment.

There is a possible baptism for Richard Lamsdale on FamilySearch:
Samuel Richard Lamsdale 23 May 1847 St Peter Wolverhampton, parents John Lamsdale and Charlotte.

[Merry]

Births Jun 1847
LANSDALE Samuel Richard Wolverhampton 17 398

[kiterunner]

There's a death registration for John Lansdale Oct-Dec 1849 Wolverhampton, so if that's him, Charlotte was really a widow in 1851 (well, assuming she was married to him in the first place - not found the marriage yet).

[Merry]

not found the marriage yet

I have lost the will to live over that one!

I expect John is John Lambsdale aged 15 in Wolverhampton in 1841 (poss with father Elias 40 a locksmith)

[kiterunner]

Samuel Richard Lamsdale's baptism is on that Wolverhampton site, abode Dudley Street, occupation locksmith.

Ah, there's a birth registration for an Alfred Lansdale, Jul-Sep 1861 Wolverhampton, vol 6b page 405. That could be your Alfred!

[kiterunner]

But as for where the surname Parry came from... I'm hoping that if you get Alfred's or James's birth certificate, it will turn out that Charlotte's maiden name is Parry. There is a possible Charlotte Parry born Herefordshire on the 1841 census, but without a marriage to John Lansdale it's just a guess at the moment.

[Merry]

There's a death registration for John Lansdale Oct-Dec 1849 Wolverhampton, so if that's him, Charlotte was really a widow in 1851 (well, assuming she was married to him in the first place - not found the marriage yet).

I've just found the burial of the 1849 John. He can't be the one who was listed as 15 in 1841 (and I had hoped had been rounded down from nearer 20 if he was going to be Charlott'es partner!). Here's the burial:

John Lamsdale bur 8th Nov 1849 at St George's Wolverhampton. Address Poneys Fold, aged 46.

Need to try and find him in 1841......

[Merry]

I wanted to find Poneys Fold on the 1851 census to see if there was another Mrs Lamsdale (widow) living there, but the only place I've found that address is in the 1813-1992 Wolverhampton burials. I've found the address recorded three more times and every time the burial was in Nov 1849 and by the same minister, so I wondered if the address should be Pountneys Fold (mis-heard or mis-transcribed) which appears quite a lot for St George burials. The other surnames for the Poneys Fold burials were Rodden, Pepper and Lear, but none of those have helped in 1851!

I've looked through the various marrige records on the Wolverhampton history site looking for any marriages for a John Lamsdale without any luck.

[ElizabethHerts]

Has anyone mentioned this one?

1861 Census
PARRY, Charlotte
WOLVERHAMPTON, Staffordshire
RG09 piece 2003 folio 30 page 17
Address: 13, Bushbury Road, Wednesfield

PARRY, Thomas Head Of Family Married M 36 1825 Labourer Smethest Salop
PARRY, Charlotte Wife Married F 39 1822 Labourers Wife Chetwynd Salop
PARRY, Mary Daughter Unmarried F 9 1852 Scholar Bradford Staffordshire
PARRY, George Son M 6 1855 Scholar Buchbury Staffordshire

No William though, and not born in Herefordshire.

However, I thought I'd put it in because of the name.

[Merry]

I've found the John Lamsdale who died in 1849 on the 1841 census. He looks to be the son of Elias and Nancy Lamsdale (I remember seeing them on the marriage indexes - Elias married twice and Nancy was his second wife)

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8978&iid=STSHO107_984_985-0492&fn=John&ln=Lansdale&st=d&ssrc=&pid=13834719

Elias 80 locksmith
Nancy 65
John 35 Journeyman locksmith
Samuel 25 ditto
William 20 ditto

All born in county. Address Waterglade (I think?!), Willenhall, Staffs.

I guess the other Elias I fould before was a son of this one and the other John was a grandson.

So, it looks likely that this John was either a bachelor or a widower in 1841.

[ElizabethHerts]

OK, we can eliminate them because I found them here:

1871 Census
PARRY, Charlotte
WALSALL, Staffordshire
RG10 piece 2956 folio 35 page 17

Castle Street, Darlaston

[kiterunner]

I've found the John Lamsdale who died in 1849 on the 1841 census. He looks to be the son of Elias and Nancy Lamsdale (I remember seeing them on the marriage indexes - Elias married twice and Nancy was his second wife)

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8978&iid=STSHO107_984_985-0492&fn=John&ln=Lansdale&st=d&ssrc=&pid=13834719

Elias 80 locksmith
Nancy 65
John 35 Journeyman locksmith
Samuel 25 ditto
William 20 ditto

All born in county. Address Waterglade (I think?!), Willenhall, Staffs.

I guess the other Elias I fould before was a son of this one and the other John was a grandson.

So, it looks likely that this John was either a bachelor or a widower in 1841.

That's very likely to be the right one, because the occupation on Samuel Richard's baptism (in 1847) is locksmith!

[kiterunner]

I just remembered that Cambridgeshire has its own BMD site, and I've found Maria Game's death on there - 1855, age 40. Also a William Game died in 1856, age 7, right age to be the William jr on the 1851 census, and Richard Game died in 1855 age 4, also Anne Maria in 1855 age 14 and Harriet in 1854 age 6. There is also a Walter who died in 1855 age 1 and a George in 1856 age 1 who may or may not be part of the same family.

So of that Game family in 1851, the only ones who might still be alive in 1861 are William senior, Charles (born abt 1836), Joseph (born abt 1838) and Frederick (born abt 1840). There is a possible marriage for Frederick in Wolverhampton in 1873 - Frederick Edward Game married Mary Ann Game, Frederick's father William Game, fruiterer.

[Merry]

And could this be the same William (also in 1851)? He has a son Charles about the right age to be the one on the 1881 census:
Comet Yard, St Giles, Cambridge
William Game Head Mar 40 Labourer Cambridge
Maria Do Wife Mar 32 Do
Charles Do Son 14 Labourer Do
Joseph Do Son 12 Do Do
Frederick Do Son 10 Do Do
William Do Son 2 Do
Richard Do Son 1m Do
Ann M Do Dau 8 Do
Harriot Do Dau 4 Do

Have to see if we can find them in 1861 to see if their William is still with them or not.

I think they may have returned to Cambridge.

From 1861 and CAMDEX it would seem:

Maria may have died in Cambridge in 1855. Record on CAMDEX but aged 40.
Charles is in Cambridge aged 22
Joseph is in Cambridge also aged 22 but they are not together.
Frederick I've not found (haven't loked properly yet)
William may have died in Cambridge in 1856. Record on CAMDEX aged 7
Richard may have died in Cambridge in 1855. Record on CAMDEX aged 4
Ann may have died in Cambridge in 1855. Record on CAMDEX is slightly too old at 14 (But FreeBMDdoes have this death as Ann Maria).
Harriet may have died in Cambridge in 1854. Record on CAMDEX aged 6

[Merry]

lol We were probaby doing those lookups at the same time as I ate my lunch before clicking Submit!!

[Merry]

So, as Maria seems to have died, I wonder why William didn't marry Charlotte? (assuming he didn't!) And why doesn't she seem to have married any of her partners?

[Merry]

Kate, have you come across anyone to fit this? I don't see why it would be 'our' William, but......

Marriages Jun 1862
Banks John Wolverhampton 6b 589
Game William Wolverhampton 6b 589 <<<<<<<<<<<<<
HUBEL Margaret Wolverhampton 6b 589
Wild Ellen Wolverhampton 6b 589

[kiterunner]

Yes, that one was on the Wolverhampton marriage transcripts site and that William was age 19, occupation shearsman, son of Robert, fruiterer. Address is Cleveland Street. Must be connected somehow!

[Merry]

Forget that, there's a married Wm from Notts in Wolv in 1871.

[Merry]

I remember seeing Games from Notts with children b cambs but I don't know where that was now! As you say, maybe connected!

[0161JACKO]

Many thanks for all the replys, will check them all out, I sent to GRO for birth certs for Alfred b1862 , and William b1857, both Wolverhampton. The reply from GRO was,searched one year each side of birth for both ,can not find any entry. Have got marriage cert for Alfred ,but i have got a problem with my scanner, marriage of Alfred Parry,age 25 to Emily Alice Bratton,age 23 on 24 Dec 1887 Wolverhampton, will send copy of cert soon as problem is solved, Alfreds father is shown as deceased:

[kiterunner]

If I were you I would order the birth certificate for Alfred Lansdale in 1861 - see post #17 on this thread. I'm pretty sure that will be him.

[Merry]

Yes, once we have the mother's maiden name from that birth cert I think everything will come together!

[0161JACKO]

See marriage cert for Alfred Parry, and enlargement of fathers name, its the first name thats a problem.

[kiterunner]

It says James Parry.

[Merry]

It says James Parry.

Yep - 100%

[kiterunner]

But I'm sure the family we traced back through the censuses is the right one, because Charles Game is with Alfred Parry and his wife on the 1891 census at 57 Bush Street. William Parry is also there. I'm wondering if when Alfred was asked his father's name, he knew that one of his brothers was named after his father but picked the wrong one!