View Full Version : george hairyes?
hi everyone many thanks for excellent help thus far with my researh you guys have done a great job,the person im stuck on now is geaogre hairyes born bramley leeds 1875/died 1912 married louisa stevens in 1909 fourt in boar war .his father was william hairyes 1831/1890 his mother was williams third wife elzabeth hogg 1840/1882 in 1881 hes living in holbeck,leeds.have no evidnece after that does he have any desendents where did he live how long did he serve in war? any help would be gratefully recived as allways,many thanks from zoe
He didn't marry Louisa Stevens, he married Mary Caroline Barnard, who may have been a widow. Have you looked at the 1911 census for him?
Here is Mary's first marriage:
Marriages Jun 1899
Barnard George Bramley 9b 678
ENGLAND Mary Caroline Bramley 9b 678
Lister Laura Bramley 9b 678
Orriell John William Bramley 9b 678
In 1911 she says she has have one child with George Hairyes who has died, so this may be the one:
Births Mar 1911
Hairyes Annie Halifax 9a 414
Deaths Jun 1911
Hairyes Annie 0 Halifax 9a 323
unless that child is someone elses and the one mary had was stillborn and so not registered.
and here is a child she had after the census:
Births Mar 1914
HAIRYES Sidney England Bramley 9b 420
but that child can't be George Hairyes's as he had been dead too long.
So, the answer to your question is, No George doesn't seem to have had any surviving descendants.
With regard to his army service, his papers are on Ancestry, despite him being dead before WW1, so you can read them there.
Are you recording all this information on an online tree or on a family history program on your computer?
I appecaite help given,im witing everything down or printing it libary.my home pc has a virus and doesnt even play games i dont know how to put up a tree online computer iilerate,so I have my trust box file. i know im behind the times but dont what to do,thanks merry
The problem is, if you only have your 'tree' on unconnected bits of paper it becomes impossible to cross reference the information you have already found, which may be vital to proving or disproving any other information you trace (especially with these Hairyes!!). It also means you end up going round and round the same data over and over again (and so do we!!! lol)
Do you need anything else about George?
I notice he lists two sisters as next of kin on the army papers (before he married, obviously) but I don't know who they are - looks like Annie Hairyes and Emily Brammer. Do you know who they are?
In 1911 she says she has have one child with George Hairyes who has died, so this may be the one:
Births Mar 1911
Hairyes Annie Halifax 9a 414
Deaths Jun 1911
Hairyes Annie 0 Halifax 9a 323
unless that child is someone elses and the one mary had was stillborn and so not registered.
it turns out this child isn't Mary's, she is the dau of Mrs Ellen Hairyes aged 27 in 1911 (no husband with her in 1911) and this may be her:
Marriages Dec 1904
Finn Ellen Blackburn 8e 592
Hairyes James A W Blackburn 8e 592
Sharples John Blackburn 8e 592
Wolstenholme Elizabeth Blackburn 8e 592
i apoligize for you having to cross reference everythong. i can understand the frustration, you guys have beenan invaluable asstet to my research. i will have to ask libararian with help puting all my resaerch up. in ansewer to your question annie is georges sister and emlily (half sister)is I thinka emily brammer is emily hogg. who is georges half sister elizabeth hoggs daughter and one of the family who went to america in 1893 july 20th with john hairyes and rebbecca..in 1871 cenccus emily hogg is living in knaresbourgh with step father william hairyes shes aged 9 and mother elizabeth hogg it states wifes daughter born in harrogate. if you could find out what happened to emily hogg and if she married a brammer did she have any off spring when did dhe die that would be a massive help.when does the record signed by george?
Please can you tell me when Annie (George's sister) was born as I don't have her written down anywhere.
I'm just looking for Emily.....
Merry - feast your eyes on this too
http://www.genealogyforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9399
and this -
http://www.forum.familyhistory.uk.com/showthread.php?t=19416
no need to duplicate if info is already found
Hi its hannah hairyes was born 1868 is georges sister apoligies dont know an annie nut there isnt a sister in my files of georges called annie could annie be short for hannah? many thnaks
This will need checking, but possibly Emily married James Brown
Marriages Dec 1882
BROWN James Bramley 9b 521
HOGG Emily Bramley 9b 521
STEPHENSON Gertrude Bramley 9b 521
Thrippleton Edward Bramley 9b 521
and later married G H Brammer
Marriages Mar 1888
BRAMMER George Henry Leeds 9b 518
BROWN Emily Leeds 9b 518
MOSS Fannie Lonesa C Leeds 9b 518
Parvin William Arthur Leeds 9b 518
in 1911 there is Emily Brammer b 1862 Harrogate and married 23 years with G H Brammer but that just leads me to the 1888 marriage.
I'm having my dinner now.
Hi its hannah hairyes was born 1868 is georges sister apoligies dont know an annie nut there isnt a sister in my files of georges called annie could annie be short for hannah? many thnaks
Hannah married in 1889, so I would need to check when the army form was filled in as there's only a tiny gap when Hannah was still a Hairyes and Emily was a Brammer!
kiterunner
10-01-12, 17:28
In 1911 she says she has have one child with George Hairyes who has died, so this may be the one:
unless that child is someone elses and the one mary had was stillborn and so not registered.
It could also be that the child she mentions was by her previous husband - a lot of people didn't understand the question and counted all their children whether by the current marriage or not.
Margaret in Burton
10-01-12, 17:28
Merry - feast your eyes on this too
http://www.genealogyforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9399
and this -
http://www.forum.familyhistory.uk.com/showthread.php?t=19416
no need to duplicate if info is already found
It does seem as though there are a lot of people on lots of sites all doing the same research.
I'd be a bit miffed about that.
It could also be that the child she mentions was by her previous husband - a lot of people didn't understand the question and counted all their children whether by the current marriage or not.
I think she said the child was dead, so she may have understood the Q!! I'll have another look............
kiterunner
10-01-12, 17:35
It does seem as though there are a lot of people on lots of sites all doing the same research.
I'd be a bit miffed about that.
I don't think those other threads are about what happened to George, are they?
I didn't look properly the first time, but now I've zoomed in - you will LOVE this!!!.................Hang on! (they didn't understand the Q after all!)
kiterunner
10-01-12, 17:41
This is George in 1891:
2 Mill Fold, Beeston, Leeds
George Brammer Head M 31 Coal Miner Yorkshire Leeds Wortley
Emily Brammer Wife M 30 Cloth Weaver Yorkshire Harrogate
Lily Brown Daur 8 Scholar Yorkshire Leeds Wortley
George H Brammer Son 2 Yorkshire Worlesford (?)
George I Hairyes Boarder S 16 Coal Miner Yorkshire Leeds Wortley
John Herrington Boarder S 17 Coal Miner Yorkshire Bradford
Mary answers the Q about the length of the marriage - one year. No other answers for her.
George also says one year. For children born alive he says 'none', but for children still living he says 'one' and for children who have died he says 'two'
My guess, and it's def a guess at the moment, is that 'none' refers to children of George and one living and two dec'd refers to children mary has had, presumably during her previous marrage.
Lily Brown Daur 8 Scholar Do Leeds Wortley
that's helpful too :)
Margaret in Burton
10-01-12, 17:43
I don't think those other threads are about what happened to George, are they?
Maybe not but this one was the same as those other sites.
http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=10634
It's on GR too
kiterunner
10-01-12, 17:44
Hannah married in 1889, so I would need to check when the army form was filled in as there's only a tiny gap when Hannah was still a Hairyes and Emily was a Brammer!
The form was filled in in 1894 so it's unlikely that Annie is Hannah.
Thanks Kate. Maybe Annie is a sister-in-law?
Emily's death;
Name: Emily Brammer
Birth Date: abt 1863
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1947
Age at Death: 84
Registration district: Leeds
Inferred County: Yorkshire West Riding
Volume: 2c
Page: 378
and George:
Name: George H Brammer
Birth Date: abt 1862
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1939
Age at Death: 77
Registration district: Leeds South
Inferred County: Yorkshire West Riding
Volume: 9b
Page: 636
very intresting thus far, is there any childrenin 1911 for emily hogg and husband where were they living,this is compltely new to me and really great research,also do the think familys ever got together in those days? fmily gatherings.do you hink my family got togeter on ere.I must say this is the firsart thread i have put up especifically about george hairyes and this the best and most detailded site ive ever been on thats why i come back so a big pat on the back to merry and her team and also all the memebers,
Zoe, we can of course type out all the census records, but can't you just look at them in the library?
do the think familys ever got together in those days? fmily gatherings.do you hink my family got togeter on ere.
Probably, but we can't say yes catagorically! Do you have any old family photos?
I must say this is the firsart thread i have put up especifically about george hairyes and this the best and most detailded site ive ever been
Well George is easy isn't he?!!! All the records have his name transcribed correctly, so it was just a case of typing his name into Ancestry and telling you the results.
kiterunner
10-01-12, 18:42
Well George is easy isn't he?!!! All the records have his name transcribed correctly, so it was just a case of typing his name into Ancestry and telling you the results.
He is down as Hairges on the 1891 census but I've submitted a correction.
Oh good.
I don't understand why Zoe couldn't find him after 1881? His death, army papers and 1911 census are all spelled correctly on Ancestry.
I have contaced family members for photographs ive been quite lucky I have my gre grandfather john william hairyes,his sisers eveline,annie marjorie. rebecca hairyes there mother and my gre grandmother i have john william sons wilfred hairyes, eric ,(y grandfather) and jack hairyes.i have john williams wifes family sarah butler.but on the hairyes side edwardian times backwards i have no photots of any family memberat all.none of the original williams hairyes it would be my dream to have photots of him and his children, but every family member has been really helpfull but some dont know they have them or they just lost a pity! where would you recemend i could ask for photos? and how could i display he photots ive got?,many thanks from zoe
I was given a photo of one of my 2xg-grandfathers by another of his descendants who I found through researching my tree. I think that's the only time I have been given a photo of a direct line relative by someone quite distantly related though.
Margaret in Burton
10-01-12, 18:59
I was given a photo of one of my 2xg-grandfathers by another of his descendants who I found through researching my tree. I think that's the only time I have been given a photo of a direct line relative by someone quite distantly related though.
You need to have your tree online really for that to happen though and Zoe doesn't.
kiterunner
10-01-12, 19:03
Wow, that's great, Zoe. I would love to have some photos of my ancestors! I did get sent photos of one set of my 3xg-grandparents by a distant relative and my parents have given me some of 3 of my great-grandmothers and one great-grandfather, but I still don't have photos of the rest. I know that there was a picture of my 2xg-grandfather with his two daughters because he mentioned it in his will, and I'm forever hoping that one day it will turn up in someone's attic!
Of course not everyone even had their photo taken in those days and not all photos have survived anyway.
could anyone tell me who the father is for sidney hairyes. mary carolines son after georges deat.it doesnt have that far on the cenus records at the library. please help?
Is that this child? (to save me finding out who Mary Caroline is!!)
Births Mar 1914
HAIRYES Sidney England Bramley 9b 420
I don't think there can be a father's name on the birth certificate, unless Mary Caroline said that the father was her dec'd husband (ie if she lied, as her late husband had been dead too long to be the child's father)
Had she named a father, but was not married to him then there would be two entries in the index - one with surname Hairyes and mmn England and another with the father's surname and mmn England. The only entries showing for that page number are these (only one called Sidney and only one with mmn England):
Births Mar 1914
CARTER Leonard Norwood Bramley 9b 420
HAIRYES Sidney England Bramley 9b 420
Hiley Harry Trippit Bramley 9b 420
Newsome George E Smith Bramley 9b 420
Storr Charlotte A Ellis Bramley 9b 420
A baptism is unlikely to give a father's name for a mother who wasn't married at this date.
Your only remaining chance is if Sidney stated his true father on his marriage cert, but I guess it's likely he said George Hairyes, either because it was easier to say that, or because he didn't know that George wasn't his father.
kiterunner
15-06-12, 11:36
You could get Sidney's birth certificate anyway to see what address Mary was living at when he was born, then check the electoral register for that address to see if anyone is listed there, though of course that wouldn't mean that person was definitely Sidney's father, but it might give you a clue to start from.
I'm not sure how you could prove anything once you had a name from the rolls for the birth address (if there was a name).
kiterunner
15-06-12, 12:11
You could look to see if he left a will leaving something to his "natural son"? Or look for his army papers and see if there was any mention of Sidney.
True. Time to cross everything, I think!
In any case, the first step would be to get the birth cert for the address.
Are we all duplicating the advice given on GR or or we finding something different?
No, the GR thread was posted up after the request on here. Kate and I had already given most of our responses by the time the GR post went up at 12.51pm. It's the people who are replying on GR who don't really need to do so!
thanks for all your help. you are the best site online.best of luck with all your future research,Zoe
thanks for all your help. you are the best site online.best of luck with all your future research,Zoe
lol You just said the same thing on GR!!!
thanks everyone for your fantastic help in this matter,you are the best site online. I will listne to you excellent advice once again.thanks
:D:d:D:d:D:d
is this a tie-break situation?? :d
Margaret in Burton
15-06-12, 18:19
pmsl Merry
:D:d:D:d:D:d
is this a tie-break situation?? :d
:rolleyes:
vBulletin® v3.8.7 PL3, Copyright ©2000-2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.