John Richard Churchill Sabine

[KiwiChris]

I am trying to sort out the son of this man really, but I am getting bogged down in the number of marriages (or not) JRC Sabine seems to have.

My main interest is Thomas Sabine baptised November 1813, who is listed in the Dorset parish records as the illegitimate son of JRC and Jane Norris. That bit is clear and straight forward lol.

Ancestry has two marriages in Dorset on the 11 November 1814 for JRC and Jane Norris, and also JRC and Susan Newland. He also married Jane Norris again in 1818 Newington St Mary where he said he was a widower and she was a spinster.
Dorset parish records on line don't have any marriage that I can find for Susan Newland and anyone, but they do have JRC and Sarah Norris, not Jane 11 November 1814, I am presuming that someone has transcribed that wrongly or I am even more confused! Family search have JRC and Jane Norris.
There are a number of message boards about all this suggesting that there was an illegal marriage the first time.
There is a baptism for a daughter of JRC Sabine and Elizabeth in 1795 and the register says Elizabeth was wife of JRC.
In his will JRC mentions that daughter as his "natural" daughter, does that mean she is his illegitimate daughter do you think?? Or just that she was his daughter??
My gut feeling is that maybe Elizabeth was his wife and was still alive when he married Jane in 1814, then he married again after she died. But Susan Newland and Sarah Norris have me really confused.......

[kiterunner]

Looking at the PR image on ancestry, the bride in the 11th Nov 1814 marriage is definitely Jane Norris, not Sarah.

I can't see where you found Susan Newland on ancestry, can you give us a clue, please?!

Natural daughter can mean illegitimate but it could also mean legitimate, confusingly enough. I was puzzled by a letter of administration which referred to someone's "natural and lawful children" and wondered if it meant some were natural and some lawful, but it turned out to mean they were legitimate and were his biological children.

[Merry]

I can't find the Susan Newland entry you mention either. I wondered if she might have actually been Elizabeth Newland, but that didn't help!

[Merry]

If he did marry the first time in 1785 then that was 7 years before he graduated from Oxford, which I would imagine would be highly unusual.......

[anne fraser]

Here is the November 1814 one http://www.opcdorset.org/WykeRegisFiles/WykeRegisMarrs1812-1836.htm

I had a situation like this once and found the father had the same name and married for a second time when he was about 70.

[Merry]

Ancestry has the image of the PR for that marriage, which shows the bride is Jane, not Sarah. (I see one of my rellies is on the same page - Letitia Buck married Peter Swatridge!)

[KiwiChris]

Erm, I can't find the marriage to Susan Newlands now either. :o

I was working through one of the family trees on Ancestry and checking the information when I was sure I saw the entry for Susan Newland and thought "ah that is where they got that." I have just done the same thing again and it is not there.:confused:

I can only think that I had confused the two wives, saw the entry for Jane and somehow thought Susan. Sorry about that. I even noted that I had sighted the entry.

Every family tree that I have found for him has a wife called Susan Newland, she was burned in my brain. I suspect that they all refer back to one tree which has her as the mother of the first 4 children including Thomas, but she certainly was not the mother of Thomas, Jane Norris was. No one seems to have any proof that she existed. I will delete her!