Ali Mohamed - Beath (Fife)

[humanracer]

My grandfather "Ali Mohamed" was Indian. He married my grandmother in 1943 in Scotland (a rare anglo-indian marriage). He was 39 when he married her so he was born around 1904. I have no idea when or where he entered the UK. My grandmother passed away some time ago so I cannot get any further information. The marriage certificate is hard to read but it says his fathers name might be "Noor Mohamed?" and his mothers name was something like Paji or Haji. It doesn't state where in India he came from (no records exist for his birth on scotlandspeople or ancestry so I assume he was not born in the UK). He died in 1948.

[kiterunner]

Could you please post up an image of that part of the marriage certificate and hopefully between us we can decipher what it says. Instructions for posting images are here:
http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/Forum/faq.php?faq=vb3_reading_posting#faq_vb3_attachment s

Best if you can use Microsoft Paint or similar to crop the scanned image of the cert before posting it up as there are usually restrictions on posting up images of certificates.

Do you have a copy of Ali Mohamed's death certificate? If he died in Scotland then the death certificate should also state his parents' names so they might be easier to read on that one.

Also what was his occupation? There are likely to be a lot of people with the same name so this might help.

[Janet]

Welcome to GF, humanracer.

I saw where you were posting on another forum. May I ask, is there a reason why you dropped out one of the names you cited over there? You said your grandfather's parents were Noor (or Koor) Mohamed and Paji (or Haji?) Nijam Mohamed. I ask this because I wonder if Nijam might be the given name and Haji an honorific:

http://www.wordnik.com/words/haji
American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Islam - One who has made a pilgrimage to Mecca.
Islam - Often used as a form of address for one who has made such a pilgrimage.

Over there also, someone was suggesting that you look at the possibility that your grandfather might have come to the UK as a serviceman. A bit of Googling turned up these two:
http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/crews/person/37134.html
http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/crews/person/37135.html
I would be very surprised if I had landed miraculously on your very family here; I think there are probably a whole lot of Noor Mohameds in the world. I just mean to say that it might indeed be a plausible line of inquiry.

I can think of one other question. Do you have any clue what language, besides English of course, your grandfather and his parents might have spoken? Even if you have a letter or some printed matter in an unfamiliar script, that could be a very large clue. The same person on that other forum suggested you look at Pakistan as a place of origin, given that the name is Muslim, but Googling the name "Noor Mohamed" I came up with several references pointing to Tamil Nadu, very far from Pakistan. I think without some other clue you can't possibly know where they hailed from and should not rule out anything.

Everything that KiteRunner said is important.

[humanracer]

Thanks Kiterunner and Janet. I have enclosed a scan.

[kiterunner]

I think this is what it says:

Father Noor Mohamed, silk merchant, deceased; mother Taji Nizam Mohamed, M.S. (=maiden surname) Din.

[kiterunner]

Just having a quick look through the UK incoming passenger lists on ancestry - I'll look some more later because I'm about to get off the computer, but I noticed one arriving in London in 1935 from Colombo (ship Fushimi Maru from Yokohama), passenger Mr Ali Mohamad, s/o Iman Din, cloth merchant age 30 last country of permanent residence India. Proposed address 35 Grundy St., Poplar, London. I'm not sure what the "s/o" bit means at the moment.

[humanracer]

Just having a quick look through the UK incoming passenger lists on ancestry - I'll look some more later because I'm about to get off the computer, but I noticed one arriving in London in 1935 from Colombo (ship Fushimi Maru from Yokohama), passenger Mr Ali Mohamad, s/o Iman Din, cloth merchant age 30 last country of permanent residence India. Proposed address 35 Grundy St., Poplar, London. I'm not sure what the "s/o" bit means at the moment.

Good find. Worth following up!


Thanks!

[humanracer]

Quite excited about this actually. Any way to get more info?. I have the library version of Ancestry but it doesn't have the passenger lists.

[kiterunner]

I wouldn't get too excited because it is a very common name so it might not be the right person. He's in the Third Class Passengers section so I wonder whether s/o could be "servant of"? It only seems to be the Third Class passengers who are s/o though not all of them are. In which case I wonder whether the occupation shown is actually their employer's occupation?

There isn't really much more info on the image than what I already quoted. The address actually says Grandy Street, Poplah, London but I assume it means Grundy Street, Poplar. Country of intended permanent residence shown as England. Date of arrival at London 11th March 1935. Steamship line NYK Line. I don't know whether there are any passenger lists for the departure from Colombo but if so I don't think they are online.

[kiterunner]

There is a Mr Iman Din arrived London 23 Oct 1934 on the same ship, also travelling from Colombo and previously resident in India. Age 23, merchant. Planning to live in England. Proposed address Md Boothe, 76 Miller St., Glasgow. Again I don't know whether merchant is his occupation or his employer's. There is a Mr Nur Nizam Din on the same passenger list, also age 23, planning to live at Imes Garden, Crossshire, Scot. But I'm afraid I don't know whether he is likely to be related to your family or whether Nizam Din is a very common name too.

[humanracer]

Thanks

There is only one match for a Nizam Din on Scotlandspeople, he died in 2008 aged 90 in Glasgow.

Maybe worth getting the cert?

[kiterunner]

I don't know whether it would be worth getting that cert as he may well be nothing to do with your family. I think it would be quite expensive.

[Anstey Nomad]

Doesn't s/o simply mean 'son of'?

Unfortunately all these Islamic names are very common in various combinations and even now you will not always see a 'surname' passing logically down the family line. Mr Khan's wife may well be Mrs Begum, or Mrs Bibi for example.

There is also quite a large islamic community in Scotland I believe, and has been for some time, so identifying one Ali Mohamed amongst all the others that will be around, is likely to be a needle in a haystack job.

It is also worth bearing in mind that pre 1947 India and Pakistan were the same country and much more religiously mixed than they are now, so whereas now we might expect that someone called Ali Mohamed would originate from Pakistan, or Bangladesh, at that time it may not have been so at all.

AN

[Mary from Italy]

Doesn't s/o simply mean 'son of'?



It might if they were travelling together and the son was a minor. I wouldn't have thought so otherwise - at least, I've never seen the father's name of an adult passenger given on a passenger list.

[JBee]

Have you got his death certificate.

If he died in Scotland in 1948 then it should just be available on scotlandspeople and might give a different version of his parents names.

Did he die in Dunbarney & Dron, Perthshire? then the image is there.

[humanracer]

Have you got his death certificate.

If he died in Scotland in 1948 then it should just be available on scotlandspeople and might give a different version of his parents names.

Did he die in Dunbarney & Dron, Perthshire? then the image is there.

Thanks Jbee. Yeah that is the right cert, but his parents are not listed. Obviously my grandmother did not know much about his family. Oh well. I guess I have found out as much as I can.