George Frederick Doe and family - a mystery

[Margaret in Burton]

I have been in contact with a new member of GF, Doreen. I hope she will join me in this thread and contribute.

Her grandfather George Frederick Doe we believe was the same person as my great aunts 2nd husband.

Doreen was led to believe that her grandfather went to war in 1914 and never returned, believed killed in action.

I have him married to my great aunt in 1926.

I have posted threads concerning him before which is how Doreen found me.

http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=6432

http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=6259

1901 census George is in Ramsey, Huntingdonshire with his first wife and Doreen's grandmother

RG13; Piece: 1470; Folio: 56; Page: 2

George Doe aged 24 born in Bury St Edmunds a Stonemason
Eleanor aged 33 born Newmarket
Eleanor aged 4 born Soham, Cambridgeshire
Edith aged 1 born Ramsey

1911 in Bradford, Yorkshire RG14PN26723 RG78PN1540 RD498 SD2 ED4 SN135

George Doe aged 32 born Bury st Edmunds a Monumental Mason
Eleanor aged 33 born Newmarket
Eleanor aged 13 born Soham
Edith aged 11 born Ramsey
Frederick aged 9 born Ramsey
Mabel aged 8 born Kings Heath, Warwickshire

Daughter Eleanor died in 1911 Sep qtr Bradford 9b 191 aged 14
Mum Eleanor died 1913 Mar qtr Doncaster 9c 1132

Marriages: Edith Doe to Thomas Rayner Dec qtr 1923 Liverpool 8b 179
Mabel Doe to Mohamed Farah Sep qtr 1923 St George Hanover Square 1a 1142
I believe Doreen has both of these certs.

Edith was Doreen's mother.
I have found one child for Mabel and Mohamed born 1924 but possible still alive. Can't find a death for Mabel so maybe they left the country.

Edith never saw her brother and sister again after their mother died and she herself went into service. She was told her father had been killed in the war.

I would love to help Doreen sort something out as well as know more about George and my great aunt.

Sorry this is so long winded.

[kiterunner]

Sorry, Marg, I can't work out from those threads whether you have the 1926 marriage cert and the 1933 death cert? And what are we trying to find out, please?

[Margaret in Burton]

Sorry, Marg, I can't work out from those threads whether you have the 1926 marriage cert and the 1933 death cert? And what are we trying to find out, please?

I have the 1926 marriage cert but not the 1933 death cert.

Trying to find what happened to all of the children after their mother died and more about George Frederick Doe between 1913 and 1926.

Sorry to confuse you Kate.

[Margaret in Burton]

Did he go to war? Can't find any record of it.

Then again as so many records were destroyed that is probable.

[Merry]

I've been randomly looking at bits and pieces to do with this (and getting nowhere!)

I'm wondering if your relative lived with GF Doe for years before they married, or whether he managed another marriage after the death of his first wife and before1926?


Edith never saw her brother and sister again after their mother died and she herself went into service. She was told her father had been killed in the war.

I wonder who told Edith her father had died?

[Margaret in Burton]

I've been randomly looking at bits and pieces to do with this (and getting nowhere!)

I'm wondering if your relative lived with GF Doe for years before they married, or whether he managed another marriage after the death of his first wife and before1926?

Quite possibly as she is in London under an assumed name in 1911 having probably left her first husband who then died in 1926 and then she married Mr Doe the next quarter after acquiring the £700 in her husbands estate.


I wonder who told Edith her father had died?

That I don't know, Doreen may know. I have emailed her with the link to this thread and asked her to join in.

[Merry]

Where was the photo of the masonary business taken?

[Margaret in Burton]

Fordham in Cambridgeshire I believe. That's where George was living in 1926 at the time of his married to Edith Fernyhough nee Newey.

The Doe's had a monumental mason business in Soham too.

http://www.sohamroots.co.uk/businesses/doe.html

[kiterunner]

And has Doreen got a copy of George Frederick's first marriage certificate, the marriage to Eleanor, so that we know the father's details etc match with the second cert?

[Margaret in Burton]

Yes she has and has sent me a copy.

Him and his father are both mason's.

[kiterunner]

Mabel may have changed her first name when she married, if she converted to Islam.

[Margaret in Burton]

Mabel may have changed her first name when she married, if she converted to Islam.

Quite possible or they emigrated to the country of her husbands birth.

[Doreen]

Hi I'm Doreen a newbie so excuse any mistakes, I am trying to find out what happened to my mother Edith Doe and her brother&sister between 1913-1923 all my mother told me was that after her mother died in 1913 her father George Frederick Doe(monumental stonemason) went to war and she was put into service and that she did'nt see her brother&sister again.She also said her father was killed possibly the Somme Idon't know eho told her but on both her and Mabel's mar.cert. Father is down as deceased in 1923

[Phoenix]

Hi Doreen, and welcome to GF!

Do you know what happened to your Mum immediately after her mother died? My guess would be that your grandfather couldn't cope with three young children and they got put into a home.

[Margaret in Burton]

Glad you've joined in Doreen. I know George was only the second husband of my great aunt and they had no children but I would like to know more about him.

[kiterunner]

I should think it's worth getting the 1933 death certificate in case it has any information that might help.

[Margaret in Burton]

The thing is, even if it's true about him going to war that wouldn't have been until after the start of WW1. That's well over a year after his wife died. As he would have been 37 at the start of the war in 1914 so he wouldn't have been called up straight away. Unless he volunteered of course.
My grandfather was born in 1883, five years before George and he wasn't called up until 1917. My grandfather was also in the Boar War so had previously been a soldier too. I don't believe George was in the Boar War.

[Margaret in Burton]

I should think it's worth getting the 1933 death certificate in case it has any information that might help.

That death is in the name of Frederick George Doe. His marriage cert to my great aunt has his names that way round too.
It is the only death in either name I can find that has a near enough year of birth.
Here is the photograph I have a scan of. As you can see he is George on his sign.
I believe that this cottage was at Fordham in Cambridgeshire.


http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/margharrison/DoeGeorgecottage-1-1-1.jpg

[Phoenix]

Does anyone have Eleanor's death certificate, to see where they were living in 1913?

Is there any mileage in using electoral rolls to see how long George might have been in Doncaster and Fordham respectively?

I don't know what Doncaster's local records are like, but there might be school admission registers for the children, which might show where they went next.

[Margaret in Burton]

Does anyone have Eleanor's death certificate, to see where they were living in 1913?

Is there any mileage in using electoral rolls to see how long George might have been in Doncaster and Fordham respectively?

I don't know what Doncaster's local records are like, but there might be school admission registers for the children, which might show where they went next.

Doreen may have it, she hasn't said. It is her grandmother.

The Doe family were from the Fordham / Soham area but George seems to have travelled around a bit.

Children born - Eleanor 1897 - 1911 b Soham (cannot find a birth reg) died Bradford
Edith - 1899 Romsey, Huntingdonshire
Frederick - 1902 Romsey
Mabel - 1904 Kings Heath, Warwickshire

1901 they were in Romsey
1911 they were in Bradford

[Phoenix]

I had noticed that he was always on the move! There are at least five counties he's asociated with - and those are just the ones you know about.

The other problem with WW1 - if he signed up but did not go abroad, there would be no medal card.

[Anstey Nomad]

The other problem with WW1 - if he signed up but did not go abroad, there would be no medal card.

Is that right? If it is, I didn't know that and it may well explain why I have searched in vain for a medal card for my maternal grandfather.

Strange that no-one on the Great War Forum suggested this.

*apologises to Marg and Doreen for hijacking their thread*

AN

[Merry]

if he signed up but did not go abroad, there would be no medal card.

That's what should happen. OH's grandfather has a medal card but never served abroad. His medals were later withdrawn.

[Doreen]

Doreen may have it, she hasn't said. It is her grandmother.

The Doe family were from the Fordham / Soham area but George seems to have travelled around a bit.

Children born - Eleanor 1897 - 1911 b Soham (cannot find a birth reg) died Bradford
Edith - 1899 Romsey, Huntingdonshire
Frederick - 1902 Romsey
Mabel - 1904 Kings Heath, Warwickshire

1901 they were in Romsey
1911 they were in Bradford

I do have both eleanor's d.cert: tried to post them but failed

[Margaret in Burton]

I do have both eleanor's d.cert: tried to post them but failed

Send them to me Doreen, I sort it.

[Margaret in Burton]

Cropped images of death certs.

Eleanor senior.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/margharrison/eleanor1-1.jpg



George is a Journeyman Monumental Mason so obviously that's why they moved around.

daughter Eleanor


http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/margharrison/eleanor-1.jpg

[Anstey Nomad]

"George is a Journeyman Monumental Mason so obviously that's why they moved around."

Definition of JOURNEYMAN

1 : a worker who has learned a trade and works for another person usually by the day
2 : an experienced reliable worker, athlete, or performer especially as distinguished from one who is brilliant or colorful <a good journeyman trumpeter — New Yorker> <a journeyman outfielder>

Origin of JOURNEYMAN

Middle English, from journey journey, a day's labor + man
First Known Use: 15th century

AN

[Merry]

Yes, none of the journeymen on my tree moved anywhere, unless you count the next street!

[Doreen]

Cropped images of death certs.

Eleanor senior.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/margharrison/eleanor1-1.jpg



George is a Journeyman Monumental Mason so obviously that's why they moved around.

daughter Eleanor


http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu326/margharrison/eleanor-1.jpg
Thanks Marg