A headscratcher!

[ElizabethHerts]

Please could people look at these entries and let me know whether Matilda/Maud might be the same person?

Also, where is Matilda in 1881 and 1911?
She remarried, but not until 1923, as far as I can see.


Matilda Ellen Collyer Woodgate
Birth 14 Mar 1874
Christening 17 May 1874 St Dunstan, Stepney, London
Father: Walter Henry Woodgate
Mother: Henrietta
Batch no. 055764


1891 Census
RG number: RG12 Piece: 461 Folio: 47 Page: 28
40, The Avenue, Camberwell, Dulwich
BONNER, Henry Head Married M 52 Living On Own Means London
BONNER, Sarah M Wife Married F 46 Living On Own Means London
BONNER, Maud E C Daughter Single F 17 London
ARCHER, Dorcas Cook Single F 31 Domestic Servant Ickford Buckinghamshire
ROOT, Elizabeth Parlourmaid Single F 35 Domestic Servant Stapleford Abbots Essex
WARRANGTON, Ada Housemaid Single F 26 Domestic Servant Norwood Surrey
BANNER, Elizabeth Housemaid Single F 19 Domestic Servant Pembrokeshire Wales

Civil Registration event: Marriage
Name: MOUNTAIN, Percy Morgan
Registration District: Croydon County: Surrey
Year of Registration: 1894
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Volume No: 2A Page No: 419
Matilda Eleanor C Woodgate

Percy Morgan Mountain died in 1895, less than a year after the marriage.

1901 Census
MOUNTAIN, Matilda
LEWISHAM, London
RG13 piece 546 folio 29 page 49
22, Lee Park, Lee
MOUNTAIN, Matilda Head Widow F 27 Living On Own Means Lee London Kent
BONNER, Henry Father Widower M 62 Living On Own Means London
DRURY, Margaret Servant Single F 34 Cook Domestic Manchester Lancashire
JOHNS, Ada Servant Single F 20 Housemaid Domestic Lee
CROW, Ellen Servant Single F 24 Parlourmaid Domestic Chelmsford Essex

[Nell]

This may not be helpful, but we did once have a Queen Maud also known as Matilda.

[ElizabethHerts]

Matilda had two brothers, Bernard Richard Woodgate and Walter Frederick Collyer Woodgate.

I think they are here in 1881, so it looks as though the parents could be dead??

1881 Census
WOODGATE, Walter
, Royal Navy at sea
RG11 piece 5643 folio 0 page 6

"The 1881 census entry you have discovered (RG 11/5643), which includes Harvey, comes from a collection of 1881 census pieces, known by The National Archives as ?unidentified fragments?. Therefore, where the enumeration was taken and what the nature of the institution was is not evident from the record itself. The first page includes some quite elderly inmates, including a Rebecca STANYARD, aged 76, and Emma BEDDELL, aged 73. Emma died in 1882, and Rebecca in 1884, both in Wandsworth Registration District. I think it possible that the institution in question was the Wandsworth and Clapham Union Workhouse on St John?s Hill. "


Did the Bonners adopt Matilda/Maud??

[ElizabethHerts]

Nell, thanks, I thought Matilda/Maud were interchangeable. I remember about Queen Maud or Matilda.

[ElizabethHerts]

I wonder if this could be her?

1881 Census
WOODGATE, Maude
CROYDON, Surrey
RG11 piece 818 folio 105 page 11

However, where did the money come from if the boys were in an institution?

[Merry]

Henrietta Woodgate died before the 1881 census but might this be Walter living longer? :


Deaths Jun 1901
Woodgate Walter Henry 58 Hackney 1b 323

[ElizabethHerts]

Merry, I saw that a few days back and forgot it (and forgot to note it) so thanks for bringing it back to my attention.

He should be on the 1901 census with any luck.

[ElizabethHerts]

I didn't find Walter senior, but I did find his son (Matilda's brother).

1901 Census
WOODGATE, Walter F C
ISLINGTON, London
RG13 piece 177 folio 78 page 26
Married to Edith with a son Frederick.

[ElizabethHerts]

Merry, that must be Walter senior, he was born in 1844.

Name: Walter Henry Woodgate
Gender: Male Baptism/Christening Date: 22 Nov 1846
Baptism/Christening Place: SAINT LUKE OLD STREET, FINSBURY, LONDON, ENGLAND Birth Date: 30 Jun 1844
Father's Name: George Roan Woodgate
Mother's Name: Emma Woodgate

[Merry]

Yes, the marriage entry (which isn't the actual PR) shows him 25 and Henrietta 35. I didn't notice how old she was at death.

[ElizabethHerts]

Yes, the age difference escaped me too.

Parish Records Collection - baptism
Day: 28
Month: September
Year: 1834
Forename: Henrietta
Surname: Collyer
Fathers forenames: Nathaniel
Fathers occupation: Tackle Porter
Mothers forenames: Charlotte
Birth date:
Address: MEOT
Location of church: Stepney

It was her father who was on the island of St Helena with Napoleon!

She was aged 42 at death

[Kit]

Elizabeth it looks like it could be the same person. If her Mum and Dad died could there be a bit of remarrying going on and Henry Bonner be a step father?

I haven't taken in everything above so apologies if that is way off the mark.

[ElizabethHerts]

Hi Toni, thanks for your thoughts. I think that after Matilda's mother died dad couldn't cope, and he gave the care of Matilda over to the Bonners, who were childless.

Merry found that her father didn't die until 1901, but where he was I can't quite find out.

[Merry]

Mrs Bonner was formerly a Collyer:

Marriages Jun 1863
BONNER Henry St. Geo. East 1c 839
COLLYER Sarah Matilda St Geo. East 1c 839
ORRELL William St Geo East 1c 839
SAMMERS Elizabeth St Geo. East 1c 839
SUMMERS Elizabeth St Geo East 1c 839

She isn't Henrietta's sister though:

Sarah Matilda Collyer bap 2 Jan 1845 father Richard Joseph Collyer,
mother Sarah Collyer at Whitechapel St Mary

[Kit]

I misread the census. I thought there was another child. lol

[ElizabethHerts]

Mrs Bonner was formerly a Collyer:

Marriages Jun 1863
BONNER Henry St. Geo. East 1c 839
COLLYER Sarah Matilda St Geo. East 1c 839
ORRELL William St Geo East 1c 839
SAMMERS Elizabeth St Geo. East 1c 839
SUMMERS Elizabeth St Geo East 1c 839

She isn't Henrietta's sister though:

Sarah Matilda Collyer bap 2 Jan 1845 father Richard Joseph Collyer,
mother Sarah Collyer at Whitechapel St Mary


Oh, Merry, well done! I hadn't investigated her.

(We are in the process of the kitchen being ripped out and I'm feeling distracted. I spent most of yesterday moving stuff.)

Off to look at her.

[ElizabethHerts]

Here she is:

Name: Sarah Matilda Collyer
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 02 Jan 1845
Baptism/Christening Place: ST MARY WHITECHAPEL,STEPNEY,LONDON,ENGLAND
Birth Date: 05 Dec 1844
Father's Name: Richard Joseph Collyer
Mother's Name: Sarah
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C00629-9
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 94698
Reference Number:

RIchard Joseph Collyer was Henrietta Woodgate's (maiden name Collyer) brother. Sarah Matilda was his daughter.


Sorry, Merry, I missed you put Sarah Matilda's baptism.

[ElizabethHerts]

So Henrietta Woodgate, the mother of Matilda Ellen Collyer Woodgate, was the aunt of Sarah Matilda Collyer, later the wife of Henry Bonner.

Sarah Matilda Bonner was Matilda's cousin!

Henrietta was only 10 years older than her niece.

[Merry]

I've been trying to find Walter senior in an institution 1881,91 or 1901 without success.

I have noticed on my own tree that office clerks (like Walter) who live in cities and are widowed young very frequently seem to turn up in the local asylum :(

[Kit]

Weren't the sons in the workhouse? I suspect Dad may have gone there too but maybe he was missed off the census.

[Merry]

This could be curious....

When Bernard Woodgate married in 1897 he said his father was Walter Woodgate, mercantile clerk, dec'd. But we have Walter alive until 1901.

[ElizabethHerts]

This could be curious....

When Bernard Woodgate married in 1897 he said his father was Walter Woodgate, mercantile clerk, dec'd. But we have Walter alive until 1901.

Merry, that's interesting. I wonder whether the children felt rejected by their father and therefore cut him out of their lives. They probably regarded him as dead because of his lack of involvement.


My daughter (younger) has just phoned in her lunch break. She has just read the first installment of this, which I typed up yesterday (about Percy Morgan Mountain). She is not as interested in family history as the elder daughter, but she is hooked by this. :)

[Merry]

lol!

Or Walter was locked up for some reason and the children were told he had died. Or he did a runner?

[Phoenix]

Have you searched for Walter under initials? Not that you can always be certain of finding the right man.

[ElizabethHerts]

I did try, Phoenix, but wasn't successful.