holder help please this is all i have...

[brenmac]

mary ann holder born 1767 gloucestershire,married 25th july 1790 to isaac arundell,she died in australia.:(any info please brenda xxxx

[Merry]

The trouble is Brenda, great swathes of Gloucestershire records are not on the internet anywhere, so even if you found a likely looking baptism, it would be difficult to say it was 'the one' as there could be many more you wouldn't know about.

If someone in her family made a will leaving her something in her married name, then that would be one way of proving who she is, but other than that.....

Do you know where her husband came from?

[brenmac]

i belive it was minchinghampton gloucestershire were she came from.brenda xxx

[Merry]

How do you know? :)

[Merry]

Oh that's where they were married:

Minchinhampton PR's

Isaac Arundell & Ann Holder 26 July 1790

Erm......... was her name Mary Ann or Ann?

[Merry]

I wonder if these are her siblings? (and one of Isaac's?)

John Webb & Elizabeth Holder 19 Aug. 1793
Nathaniel Arundel & Mary Holder 13 Nov. 1793
Charles Holder & Elizabeth Jones 14 Dec. 1794
William Holder & Ann Ockford 16 Oct. 1797
Benjamin Brinket & Sarah Holder 25 Dec. 1797

I don't see any Holder marriages in this parish in the previous centuries though, so it's possible the family only arrived within the last generation.

[Merry]

There's this MI:

B65. Ann, w/o William HOLDER,
8 April 1804, 26


Which is probably for Ann nee Ockford who married William Holder in 1797.

[Merry]

If it turns out there is only this Holder family in Minchinhampton, then you might be lucky and find her parents (or likely parents) can be identified from the burial registers.

[Merry]

William Holder remarried:

William Holder & Elizabeth Barter 3 Sept. 1804

[Mary from Italy]

When and where in Australia did she die? Her death cert should have her age and parents' names.

[Mary from Italy]

A Thomas Arundell, son of Isaac and Mary A., died in Liverpool, near Sydney, NSW in 1860.

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/Index/IndexingOrder.cgi/search?event=births

There are two entries for people called Thomas Arundell in the NSW Insolvency Index, a publican in 1848 and a circus proprietor in 1868:

http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/searchform.aspx?Table=Insolvency+Index&Surname=arundell&First=%25&Page=

The second one can't be the son of Isaac and Mary Ann in view of the date of death. There's also a bankruptcy entry in 1890, but again, it's too late to be their son.

[kiterunner]

Brenda, are you sure that the Mary Ann you're looking for isn't the one who married Nathaniel Arundell rather than the Ann who married Isaac?

[brenmac]

How do you know? :)

from another holder searching brenda xxx

[brenmac]

Brenda, are you sure that the Mary Ann you're looking for isn't the one who married Nathaniel Arundell rather than the Ann who married Isaac?

issac maried mary ann she went by ann,her sister married nathaniel,brenda xxx

[Merry]

from another holder searching brenda xxx

And how do they know?!!

As Mary said, do you have the Australian death certs?

[brenmac]

When and where in Australia did she die? Her death cert should have her age and parents' names.

all we know is she died therei imagine in the middle 1800,s as she was married 1790.brenda xxx

[Mary from Italy]

Does your contact know when they went to Australia, and which State they went to? I can't see them on any passenger lists (but I haven't found Thomas either, and we know he died in NSW), and I can't see a death for them in NSW, WA, Qld or Vic.

[brenmac]

no only she said ....she died in australia,thats all she told me and i think thats all she knew,brenda xxx

[Mary from Italy]

Can you ask her where the information came from? She must have got it from somewhere. Does she know if Isaac or any of their children were born, married or died in Australia?

[brenmac]

will ask when she emails again thankyou brenda xxx

[HarrysMum]

I can't find a marriage for Thomas anywhere either.

Bren.............ask your contact where she got her info, as Mary suggests. We know Thomas was here, but I can't find much on the others.

There a few Arundells (various spellings) and some Holders in Australian BMDs.

[brenmac]

thankyou libby will do brenda xxx

[brenmac]

this is the info she has sent me .
he married Mary Holder in 1793. he is brother to Isaac Arundell, their parents are Isaac Arundell and Elizabeth Hobbs, Mary & Ann's parents are John Holder & Martha deague, I have no more on the Holder's or the Hobbs, apart from I have a note that John Holder may have come from Hereford, England,
brenda xxx

[kiterunner]

So that's about Nathaniell Arundell, isn't it, Bren?

[brenmac]

yes thats all she has brenda xxx

[kiterunner]

But didn't you say it was Isaac Arundell's wife who was supposed to have died in Australia, Bren?

[Merry]

So, was it Nathaniel and his wife, or Isaac and his wife, who went to Australia?

I suppose whichever couple it was, if your contact has their death certs (but she hasn't said where she got this info, has she?) and that is where the parental info came from, it will be the same, whichever couple it was who died there!

There's this submitted IGI entry for the parents marriage which may be worth checking out:

JOHN HOLDER Pedigree
Male Family
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:
Marriages:
Spouse: MARTHA DEAGUE Family
Marriage: 18 DEC 1766 Rodborough, Gloucester, England

[HarrysMum]

Thomas, son of Isaac and Mary Ann died in NSW in 1860. I can't find him coming here or marrying here.

It would be worth getting that death cert though, as someone knew his parents' names so it should have when he came here and where he was born at least.

[HarrysMum]

I've found a tree with Thomas and his wife Sarah Wood coming to Australia in 1837. They lost two children on the voyage.

No sign of Thomas' parents though.

[HarrysMum]

Brenda..............not sure how good this is but worth a look.


http://www.evansabove.com/tree/family.php?famid=F750&ged=evans.ged

[brenmac]

http://i311.photobucket.com/albums/kk479/brendamccartie/th_Mail0025.jpg (http://s311.photobucket.com/albums/kk479/brendamccartie/?action=view&current=Mail0025.jpg)

http://i311.photobucket.com/albums/kk479/brendamccartie/th_Mail0024.jpg (http://s311.photobucket.com/albums/kk479/brendamccartie/?action=view&current=Mail0024.jpg)

http://i311.photobucket.com/albums/kk479/brendamccartie/th_Mail0023-1.jpg (http://s311.photobucket.com/albums/kk479/brendamccartie/?action=view&current=Mail0023-1.jpg) this is what she sent brenda xxx

[Merry]

i belive it was minchinghampton gloucestershire were she came from.brenda xxx

But in those images you have just posted doesn't the middle one suggest Ann and Mary Ann Holder were baptised at Rodborough?

[HarrysMum]

Had another look through everywhere i can think and still no sign of Thomas' parents.

That link I posted had Thomas and Sarah coming without any mention of his parents.

[brenmac]

thankyou all for helping i will have to keep trying brenda xxx