John Bryant - born 1814 - agent of copper mine

[tenterfieldjulie]

I'm wondering if I am overlooking the obvious, or whether the records have disappeared. The only record, apart from Census records, I have been able to find for John Bryant is his baptism. He was baptized at Perranuthnoe, Cornwall, 25 Sep 1814, parents Alexander and Grace. I then found him in the 1841 Census at Broadlane, Altarnun, Lesnewth. John Bryant, 25 years, agent of copper mine, Elenor 20 and William 8 months. (In the 1851 Census his brother Joseph is living at Broadlane, Altarnun.) In the 1851 Census I found at Liskeard, address Bay Tree Hill, Eleanor Hancock, married, 32, wife of copper miner and grocer, born Callington, William Bryant, son 10, born Callington, John Bryant, 7, born Altarnun, Benjamin Bryant, 5, born Altarnun, Albert Bryant, 3 born Callington, Caroline Hancock, dau, 1 week, born Liskeard, Alice Rule, nurse, and Julia Bryant 17, domestic servant (she was actually John's niece). I have not been able to find the marriage of John and Eleanor, the baptisms of the children or John's death I'd calculate 1846/48. Help please.

[kiterunner]

The children may not have been baptised, or the baptisms haven't been transcribed online yet? Have you got Eleanor's maiden name?

[kiterunner]

Findmypast has a burial for a John Bryant in 1849 at Liskeard, age 34. You would need a sub or credits to view the full details.

[Margaret in Burton]

Buried Lanchard Cemetery, Liskeard, Cornwall on 9 May 1849

[tenterfieldjulie]

That is brilliant Kate and Marg thank you. I don't know Elenor/Eleanor's maiden name as I never found either of her marriages. I have contacted the OPC at Altarnun to see if there are any gaps in the baptismal register. Two of Joseph's girls born in that same era don't appear, while earlier ones at Perranuthnoe and later ones at Altarnun do. So far I have not heard back. I found a marriage to a Dorothy Stanlake at Bodmin, but it is a different John Bryant. I also wonder if they were Primitive Methodist. Some of other members of the family were and maybe the records aren't online. I thought there should be a burial, so I am very pleased. Many thanks .

[kiterunner]

There's a possible marriage between William Ossborne (or Orsborne) Hancock and Eleanor Bryant Jul-Sep 1850 Stoke Damerel district, vol 9 p 532. Of course that far back they had 4 marriages per page, so it's not easy to work out whether those two definitely married each other.

Possible birth regs for the children - William Trefry Bryant Oct-Dec 1850 Liskeard 9 153
John Bryant Jan-Mar 1843 Launceston 9 149
Benjamin Bryant Jul-Sep 1845 Launceston 9 136
Albert Bryant Jan-Mar 1848 Liskeard 9 161
Caroline Hancock Jan-Mar 1851 Liskeard 9 202

Any of these would give you Eleanor's maiden name, which would make it easier to look for her marriage to John Bryant.

[kiterunner]

But - I just realised Trefry might be her maiden name! And there is a possible marriage Oct-Dec 1837 East Stonehouse district vol 9 p 401 between John Bryant and Eleanor Crocker Trefry! Again, it's one of those with 8 names on the page so they may not have married each other, but I bet it's the right one.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Bingo Kate. You are brilliant. Trefry is not a name associated with the Bryants, so that is excellent. whoeeeeeee!
Now that you have solved John .... I must look up my other difficult Bryant .. William at least I know his wife's name, although she alternated between Phillis and Phillipa and spelt Phyllis and Phillas lol ... back soon ~~~

[tenterfieldjulie]

I'm not sure if Kate or anyone has time to take on another Bryant quest but
I thought I'd tell you of my dilemma with this pesky Bryant lol

I thought I had found William Bryant's death at Millbrook Cornwall aged 64 buried 25/9/1870. Somehow something niggled at me and I found him at Millbrook in the 1861 Census and he isn't mine.

My William was baptised as William Bryan at Perranuthnoe 26/1/1806, fortunately his parents are Alexander and Grace, so I know he is my 2xgreatgrandfather's brother.

1841 Census: William, copper miner, his wife Phillis (Bawden) and 6 children are living next door to his brother, who is living next door his parents :
Piece HO107/143/11 Place Penwith-Cornwall Enumeration District 6 Civil Parish Perran Uthnoe Folio 21 Page 10 Address Goldsithney.

1851 Census: William, mining agent, Phillis and children William 23, James 21, Elizabeth 18, Grace 15, Benjamin 12, John 10, Walter 7 and Alfred are:
HO107/1905 Place Padstow-Cornwall Enumeration District: 1c Civil Parish: St. Breock Folio 50 Page 32 Sched 142 Address: Wadebridge

1861 Census: William, mine agent, Phyllis, + 7 children:
Piece RG9/1529 Place Liskeard-Corwall Enumeration District 7 Civil Parish: Liskeard Folio 44 Page 49 Sch 255 Address: Castle Gardens

1871 Census: William, Phyllis + children ????

1881 Census: Piece RG11/2343 Place Marazion-Cornwalll Enumeration District 6 Parish Perranuthnoe Folio 58 Page 8 Sch 54 Address Queen Street - Phillas Bryant, Head, Widow, 76 years Born Perranuthnoe

Burial: 3/10/1888 Perranuthnoe Phyllis Bryant 84 years Residence Goldsithney.

There were 5 William Bryants born around 1806 in Cornwall. If Phillas/Phyllis/Phillis (also called Phillipa on some of the children's baptisms, I think the minister couldn't spell!!) can be found in the Census, it might narrow the field to find William's burial. There are 3 William Bryant burials with the right age and also some without an age in the 1861 to 1881 time frame. Help!!

[Phoenix]

This looks like her, already a widow in 1871:

1871 Census
BRYANT, Phillis
MILE END OLD TOWN, London, Middlesex
RG10 piece 564 folio 82 page 21

[tenterfieldjulie]

Thanks Phoenix that narrows it down. I don't have Ancestry at the moment. Is she with family please?

[Phoenix]

From FMP

BAKER, Richard Head M 35 1836 Cornwall
BAKER, Grace Wife F 34 1837 Cornwall
BAKER, Frederic Son M 6 1865 Middlesex
BAKER, Charlotte E Daughter F 0 1871 Middlesex
BAKER, William J Nephew M 5 1866 Cornwall
BRYANT, Phillis Mother F 67 1804 Cornwall
BRYANT, Alfred Brother M 24 1847 Cornwall
WOOD, William H Visitor M 26 1845 Middlesex

[tenterfieldjulie]

That is wonderful Phoenix. It is certainly her and I've found more about the family too. Well that is great, now I can narrow it to finding William's burial between 1861 and 1871... yeah

[Margaret in Burton]

That is wonderful Phoenix. It is certainly her and I've found more about the family too. Well that is great, now I can narrow it to finding William's burial between 1861 and 1871... yeah

No burials in Cornwall that fit on FMP or the NBI but that's because they aren't online yet or transcribed.

[Margaret in Burton]

Don't know if it's been mentioned up thread but I did spot a death for William Treffry Bryant
Sep qtr 1885
aged 44
Liskeard
5c 35

[tenterfieldjulie]

Thanks Marg. No I didn't have that.
The one I found on FreeBMD that I think the most likely is in Mar Q 1869 William Bryant 63 at St. Austell 5c 85. St. Austell had lots of mines in the area.
I have eliminated quite a few between the OPC and ages.
There is one at Penzance in 1861, one at Truro in 1862, one at Redruth in 1863 and another at Penzance in 1864, which I haven't been able to eliminate.
Think St. Austell first, then Penzance ones. Probably it will be the one at Redruth !!
I'll see if I can contact the OPC in the areas and see if they can eliminate any of them. Cheers.

[Margaret in Burton]

Yes the problem being there are no ages on the death registrations until 1866. If you could find the burial it would eliminate some of them.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Thanks very much Kate, Marg and Phoenix for your help and interest it is very much appreciated. Cheers. Julie

[tenterfieldjulie]

Marg because of you giving me that burial at Lanchard Cemetery, I googled it and found that it was a Quaker burial ground .. so no wonder couldn't find baptisms because they don't believe in them.. Not sure if Quaker marriages were legal, so they probably also had to have civil marriages as well. Many thanks Julie

[Merry]

Not sure if Quaker marriages were legal, so they probably also had to have civil marriages as well.

No, that's not right - Quaker marriages were/are legal both before and after 1837. If you find a single Quaker entry for a person, but they were otherwise a different denomination then warning bells should ring. It can happen - my gg-grandfather was buried in the Quaker burial ground though he wasn't a Quaker but this was quite an exception.

Quakers were not supposed to even enter a C of E church!

[ElizabethHerts]

Don't know if it's been mentioned up thread but I did spot a death for William Treffry Bryant
Sep qtr 1885
aged 44
Liskeard
5c 35

Here is the burial for this one:

Burial ground: Lanchard Cemetery
Place: Liskeard
County: Cornwall
Ref: SW-022
Forenames: William Treffry
Surname: BRYANT
Post Nominal: JP
Date: 6 Aug 1885
Age: 45
Card or Location No: Loc No
Year: 1885
Age in years: 45

[tenterfieldjulie]

Thanks Elizabeth that is the same Quaker burial ground where his father was buried. There are no records of baptisms for William Treffry Bryant or his siblings. William Bryant Senior was baptised C of E and buried in Lanchard, so I presumed he was a convert to the Quaker faith. The first Quakers were originally other religions weren't they. Could not a person be a convert to the Quaker faith?
Merry I know next to nothing about the Quaker religion, but I was wondering is it possible that people who died elsewhere would have been bought to a central burial ground. I just remembered hearing a lecture recently about a Jewish burial ground at Maitland here in NSW. People who died elsewhere their bodies were taken to Maitland to be buried, even in the early days. A completely different religion i know, but I have never come across a separate burial ground for Quakers. I have come across Protestant Dissenting Burial grounds in Bucks but I thought that was for Baptists.

[Merry]

Sorry, I've not been reading this thread, so don't know all the details! It does sound as if the first gen (William Bryant Senior ?) was a convert.

Where did he and his children get married?

[Merry]

A completely different religion i know, but I have never come across a separate burial ground for Quakers. I have come across Protestant Dissenting Burial grounds in Bucks but I thought that was for Baptists.


I think by the 19thC there were quite a lot of Quaker Meeting Houses with their own burial ground in England, so most people wouldn't have to be taken too far.

Usually a dissenting burial ground would have a clue in it's name if it were one specific denomination and would probably, in that case, be 'attached' to a place of worship.

In local cemeteries non-conformists of any denomination might well be mixed together in the un-consecrated part of the cemetery. Sometimes Catholics get their own designated area, but Baptists, Quakers, Methodists etc would not get their own space. Obviously agnostics and athiests would most likely be in the un-consectrated part too, though it's often the relatives who make these choices!

[tenterfieldjulie]

Kate I could not find John Bryant's marriage or his children's baptism. I found John, his wife Eleanor and William on the 1851 Census, then 1861 Census his wife had remarried, but there more Bryant children. Kate found the birth registrations of the children, the second marriage and noted that the first child had the name of Treffry and she then found civil reg of marriage of Eleanor Treffry to John Bryant. Marg gave me John's burial at Lanchard. I googled Lanchard and made assumptions.

[Merry]

and she then found civil reg of marriage of Eleanor Treffry to John Bryant.

Do you mean the GRO ref or a civil marriage?

When was that, roughly?

[Merry]

Ah! Was it in 1837? (ought it to be a Quaker marriage?)

[tenterfieldjulie]

From Kite Runner's Post #7 this thread:
Marriage Oct-Dec 1837 East Stonehouse district vol 9 p 401 between John Bryant and Eleanor Crocker Trefry.
Can't find it C of E in Cornwall, but then it could be Devon. Not sure which side of the border it was.
Eleanor's next marriage was in Stoke Damerel. I have found another of her children, Benjamin, who was married in the Census, I think he was a solicitor's clerk - I have not found his marriage C of E either.

[Merry]

Does that need to be a Quaker or civil marriage to fit into the family? I would be very surprised if it's a Quaker marriage as it would be unusual to have four Quaker marriages in one Q unless it was a very busy Quaker meeting (there are 8 names on the GRO page)

[Merry]

Oops, visitors have arrived...............

[tenterfieldjulie]

Thanks for your interest Merry ... I must go to bed, but just in case you return... The reason why I thought it was Quaker was that William Bryant and William Treffry Bryant are both buried in the Lanchard Burial Ground at Liskeard in Cornwall. When I googled, it said it was a Quaker burial ground, therefore I thought they were Quaker.
I have not found C of E marriages for any of the family and nobody else has been able to either.

[Merry]

I can find stuff about the Quaker burial ground at Liskeard and I can find stuff about the Lanchard Cemetery at Liskeard, but I can't find stuff connecting Lanchard with Quakers :o What did you find?

[tenterfieldjulie]

Merry I must be loosing my marbles, I have googled and googled and I can't find what I found before... at least I think I found. I can now only find two separate cemeteries. Lanchard and the Quaker one. I didn't keep what I thought I found grrrrh. So whether it is there and wrong, or I confused the two I don't know. I'm going to buy some death certs and although this isn't a direct line, I hope it might give me answers, at least I know he is in the family, not like the hopeful one with his brother.
Lanchard I found two photos - and there are quite a lot of headstones, the other is of the entrance and the sign at the gate says "Laybye for Funerals Only" so it must have been in recent use. The Quaker listing is only a handful of names.
Many thanks for correcting my mistaken belief that they were Quaker Merry.
I should get John and Eleanor's marriage cert and then I will know what they were...

[Merry]

I hate that - finding something once and then never again!

Last week I told OH about a story I'd read on here about one of Libby's OH's relatives. Halfway through the story I begn to think it seemed unlkely (even for the Ariels!) and so I searched this site for the thread I believed I had read the day before. Couldn't find it, so can only assume I dreamed the tale! :o:o:o