Tying myself up in knots.....

[Sue from Southend]

..... trying work out if the Thomas Hodges here in 1841 http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&rank=1&gsfn=thomas&gsln=hodges&sx=&f1=Middlesex&f2=&f3=&f18=&rg_81004011__date=1771&rs_81004011__date=5&_82004011=&_82004013=&f7=&f20=&f8=&f9=&gskw=&prox=1&db=uki1841&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=35&fh=1&h=7119199&recoff=8+9

Class: HO107; Piece 668; Book: 4; Folio: 20; Page: 33

is my 4x gt Grandfather. My Thomas was a Smith but I don't recognise any of the family names with him.
His family as I know it are: Wife Elizabeth (no death date), children - Harriot 1790, Thomas 1797, William 1799, Esther 1801 (my 3x ggm and fully documented),Benjamin 1803, Elizabeth 1805. All born St Lukes/St Giles Cripplegate area.

Is Sarah a daughter in law, or a second wife and who do the children belong to - I can't find any likely looking baptisms to help. There is a Robert Hodges in later censuses that pops up in 1851 "married" to a Caroline and then in 1861 married to a Jane (although marriage
actually to Jane Ann Lanning took place in 1862) http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&rank=1&gsfn=robert+&gsln=hodges&sx=&f1=Middlesex&f2=&f4=&f18=&f12__n=&rg_81004011__date=1823&rs_81004011__date=5&f27=&f14=&f15=&_8000C002=&_80008002=&_80018002=&f7=&f8=&f9=&gskw=&prox=1&db=uki1861&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=35&fh=0&h=8786672&recoff=
Class: RG9; Piece: 209; Folio: 91; Page: 26
Where it is stated that the Coles are his parents and lo and behold a baptism for Robert Cole in 1823. But the marriage record gave his father as Thomas Hodges (there was another Hodges marriage on the same page who might have been a brother)

In 1871 Robert is with Jane and a daughter Emma.

But I'm still no nearer to working out what's going on and whether Thomas Hodges in the 1841 is "mine". I'm just confusing myself more and more as I look at it. Can someone with some time to spare have a bash at unravelling some of it, please? That's assuming I haven't cinfused everyone else too ;(

Thanks

[kiterunner]

Where did you find the Robert Cole baptism, please?

[kiterunner]

Apart from the Robert Cole baptism, I think the most likely explanation for the 1861 census is that the wife Jane isn't the same Jane that he married, but that Jane is the daughter of John and Ann Coles. But I haven't managed to find them on previous censuses to see whether they have a Jane.

[Sue from Southend]

Sorry Kite the baptism was in 1824 http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&rank=1&f3=robert&f4=cole*&=&f16=&f17=&rg_f18__date=1823&rs_f18__date=5&f24=%2c&f19=&f9=john&f13=ann&gskw=&db=lmabirths&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=34&fh=1&h=781611&recoff=10+11+34+45+46
The mother is Jane, not Ann as per the census but Ann could easily be a second wife.
My first thought was that Jane was a Cole/Coles and maybe her second marriage but I'm just not finding anything.

[Phoenix]

Sue

I have explored Lannings to extinction and I know they have connections with a Coles family. As I don't have Ancestry, would you post up the details of Jane Ann's marriage, please?

[Sue from Southend]

Sounds interesting Phoenix!

2 May 1862 @ St Lukes Old Street
Jane Ann Lanning, full age, spinster, Father - George Lanning, occ farmer
Robert Hodges, full age, bachelor, occ Smith. Father - Thomas Hodges, occ Smith

Witnesses - William Pratt and Ann Cowell

[kiterunner]

I don't think that Robert Cole baptism is connected, because the father's occupation is labourer and the date of birth is 9 May 1823, and I found what I thought was likely to be the baptism of the Coles' daughter Ann who is with the family in 1861 - Anne Coles baptised 7 Jul 1823 at St Leonard Shoreditch, born 8 Jun 1823, parents John and Ann Coles of Edwards Place, father's occupation blacksmith.

[Phoenix]

If Jane is who I think she is, she would be born c 1836 -1840 in Marylebone, daughter of George & Mary nee Taylor, but George is usually described as a coachsmith or coffee house keeper.

The family were in North St (which I think is Marylebone) in 1841. In 1851 Jane is with her Uncle Fred in Greenwich, down as a visitor. I can't find her in 1861. George, now married to Rebecca, is in Weymouth Street as (I think!) Lunnary.

[Sue from Southend]

If it's the same Jane, Phoenix, in 1861 she's in Colwell's Buildings, Finsbury with Robert Hodges and this John and Ann Coles described as father and mother!
Class: RG9; Piece: 209; Folio: 91; Page: 26;

Kite, OK I admit I was clutching at straws with the Robert Cole baptism! Just wish I could pin him down in some way to connect him or otherwise with my Thomas Hodges. The possible sibling, Maria, in the 1841 census is even more elusive :(

[kiterunner]

If it's any help, it looks as though Thomas jr (the one who had the double wedding along with Robert and Jane) had a son called Robert baptised in 1863 in Islington, born 1st Mar 1863. I'm trying to find that Thomas on the censuses to see roughly when he was born, but having no luck!

[kiterunner]

If it's the same Jane, Phoenix, in 1861 she's in Colwell's Buildings, Finsbury with Robert Hodges and this John and Ann Coles described as father and mother!
Class: RG9; Piece: 209; Folio: 91; Page: 26;


But we don't know whether that's the same Jane who married Robert Hodges in 1862, do we? Or have I missed something?

[Sue from Southend]

No, you haven't missed anything Kite. I'm doing what we shouldn't and assuming but of course that doesn't explain the relationship given for John and Ann Coles. I suppose that I'm worried about going off on tangent and losing the whole point of this hunt!

[Phoenix]

Thank God I did my researches on microfilm, not Ancestry or fmp!

I know I have seen George Lanning b c 1800, on a census for 1841. Can I find them on an index? No! I think his wife was dead, daughter Mary in Manchester, but that should have left the 3 little ones bp in 1840: Thomas aged 8, William aged 5 & Jane Ann b 3 Oct 1837.

Jane Ann Lanning's cousin Charlotte married a Charles Cole.

Kite, the only reason that might be the same Jane is that the Lannings did tend to lie about their marital status. And I can't find Jane in 1861.

[Sue from Southend]

That dob for Jane fits with the 1861 census for Jane Hodges.....

[Phoenix]

Can you find that Robert after 1871? Or Jane? I'm blowed if I can see what happened to her.

[Sue from Southend]

There's a possible death for Robert in 1880 - but it's Poplar and I can't spot Jane anywhere.
I thought I'd found a possible death for Jane Ann Hodge 1884 Lambeth but it looks as though she may have been born in Norfolk according 1881 census

[Phoenix]

Even Emma seems to have gone walkabout.

[Sue from Southend]

I've just found a death for an Emma Hodges, right sort of age 1880, Poplar.....

[Phoenix]

Correction: she probably died Jun qtr 1880, also Polar.

[Phoenix]

Snap!

[Sue from Southend]

I've gone back to beginning to see if I can find a birth for Robert. Still not finding much but there must something, somewhere surely (insert hopeful smiley)

[Phoenix]

I'd better get back to the work I should be doing. Jane is sister to best mate's ancestor. I'll check up with her what she has on Jane. Somebody had a baby in the workhouse, but I can't remember who.

As a matter of interest, did Robert marry first time round?

[Sue from Southend]

No, not as far as I can see. He was with a "wife", Caroline in 1851 but I can't spot a marriage or children.