Missing in 1841?

[Merry]

BK6 updated from this thread

I am struggling with this family because the man in the house is constantly missing and he is the one I need to find out about.

In 1851-1871 Elizabeth Crawley says she is married and born about 1795/7 in Tottenham.

In 1881 she says she is a widow.

I know from her marriage and children's baptisms her husband was James Crawley, a labourer. They were married in Tottenham in 1814.

Here are the links for Elizabeth:

1851

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8860&iid=BRKHO107_1702_1702-0940&fn=Elizabeth&ln=Crawley&st=d&ssrc=&pid=3864399

1861

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8767&iid=BRKRG9_794_798-0191&fn=Elizabeth&ln=Crawley&st=d&ssrc=&pid=10975975

1871

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8767&iid=BRKRG9_794_798-0191&fn=Elizabeth&ln=Crawley&st=d&ssrc=&pid=10975975

1881

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7572&iid=MDXRG11_1384_1387-0336&fn=Elizabeth&ln=Crawley&st=d&ssrc=&pid=15898146

Obviously she may well be a widow all the way along, but in 1871 there is this James in the workshouse who might be her husband, though a little young for the 1814 marriage.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7619&iid=MDXRG10_1341_1343-0529&fn=James&ln=Crawley&st=d&ssrc=&pid=1525650

Maybe his age in the workhouse records is off and this is his death?

Deaths Jun 1872
Crawley James 76 Edmonton 3a 130

Anyway, whether this James is her husband or not, he was beamed in from space in 1871 as I can't find him before that at all! I was thinking if I could find the family in 1841 it might give me some idea of his age etc, but I can't find any of them in 1841! Can you?

Oh, their children (in case it helps with 1841!) are bap as follows:

Joseph Crawley 12 Feb 1815
Mary Crawley 16 Mar 1817
Jane Crawley 2 Apr 1820
James Crawley 15 May 1825
Anna Crawley 25 Nov 1827
Charles Crawley 17 Apr 1830
Elizabeth Crawley 20 Nov 1831
Isabella Crawley 15 Jun 1834

all bap at Tottenham.

I have a marriage cert for Mary Crawley bap 1817- it's dated 1859 and states her father is James a labourer and doesn't say he is dead, but I do know the groom's father WAS dead, but that isn't mentioned on the cert :(

[kiterunner]

I've had no luck finding them yet, but is the second witness on Isabella's marriage cert really called Kitty Cat?!

[kiterunner]

Joseph Crawley married Mary Ruffold 19 Apr 1840 at St James Clerkenwell, father James Crawley, gardener. I think this is the right Joseph because he is a Messenger, and on the 1851 census Joseph Crawley age 36 born Tottenham is a Messenger Fire Office with wife Mary. So this is them in 1841 at Great Leonard Street, St Leonard Shoreditch:
Joseph Crawley 25 Messenger Y
Mary Do 25 Y
William Greethouse(?) 34 Waiter Y
Ann Do 35 Y
Infant male 9 something Y (I would say it looks like 9 years but that doesn't seem right!)

Not found the rest of the family though!

[Merry]

I've had no luck finding them yet, but is the second witness on Isabella's marriage cert really called Kitty Cat?!

lol! Thanks for looking, Kate!

Erm....Cox probably!

[Merry]

Daughter, Elizabeth Crawley, m Henry Greenhill in 1851. Isabella Crawley is a witness. Bride's father James, labourer.

[Merry]

I'm still looking for James Crawley husband of Elizabeth.

I noticed on what appears to be the baptism of their first born child in 1815 that the occ for James is not labourer as appears on all the later baps, but soldier.

I had a look at the online army records on FMP and turned up a sevice paper for a James Crawley born in Tottenham who was aged "about 25" when he was discharged 29th Dec 1815 (having suffered a gunshot would to his left am in the battle of Avara in 1813.)

I am pretty sure this must be the right man to be Elizabeth's husband. I don't know whether he was really still alive when she said she was married on all those censuses - what I really need to find is who his parents were, but at the moment I can't find a baptism :(

I did wonder if James's father was named Joseph as that is the name of their first-born (never had a naming pattern before!) - Elizabeth's father was William.

[kiterunner]

Oh yes, I noticed he was a soldier on that baptism too but I must have forgotten to post that up, sorry. I did have a good look for him on the censuses though and had no luck.

[Merry]

Thanks Kate. It's so annoying he doesn't seem to have been baptised (at least not in the parish church at Tottenham.)

[Merry]

This battle he was wounded in....spelling in 1815 is Avora and Avorra. I am having trouble finding anything about it. His injury was 1st Sept 1815. Any ideas?

[kiterunner]

Is it 1813 or 1815, Merry? You said he was injured in 1813 in post #6 and 1815 in post #9.

[JBee]

Sounds like he was with Sharp and Wellington!!! sorry!!

[Phoenix]

Surely 1813? Waterloo was 18 June 1815.

[Phoenix]

Merry, the odds are if it's 1813, it's Peninsular ie Spain. Which letter is pronounced "v" in Spain?

[Phoenix]

Hmm, there's a battle of Vera, Oct 1813.

[Merry]

Is it 1813 or 1815, Merry? You said he was injured in 1813 in post #6 and 1815 in post #9.

:D Sorry!

1813.

It was the first baptism and his discharge that were 1815 :o:o:o

Vera?!! That might be it. Thank you.

[lpolloc]

Hi Merry ;-)
I am a descendant of James Crawley and have been trying very hard to find his father/mother. Please let me know if you find out anymore info...my great grandmother was his great grand-daughter. my email is [email protected]. I am in the US. Thanks ;-) Lisa P.

[Merry]

How interesting, Lisa!

From which of his offspring do you descend?

[Janet]

http://books.google.com/books?id=PtMfAQAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA144&lpg=RA1-PA144&dq=%22James+Crawley%22+Tottenham&source=bl&ots=WEaM1xTvsP&sig=t433_3eB9VhBcN3hAd3XqXXB5w4&hl=en&ei=_k6KTvqfPIrL0QHmv-S9BA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22James%20Crawley%22%20Tottenham&f=false pages 144-146

Does this piece fit into the puzzle somewhere, Merry? :confused:
1890, June 20. The Guardian of the West Ham Union (appellants) v. The Overseers of St. Giles-in-the-Fields (respondents).
The case involves Elizabeth Crawley, a pauper aged 32 years, wife of Albert Crawley who is the son of James and Elizabeth Crawley.

In this court case Albert Crawley is reported to have been born in the parish of Walthamstow, in the West Ham Union, on the 5th of April, 1857.

The father James Crawley was born in the parish of Tottenham, in the Edmonton Union, on the 19th of April, 1825.

[Janet]

Someone has an Old Tottenham web site
http://www.mickbruff.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/highroad/allhallows/

At the bottom of that web page I used the "Search this site" link with James Crawley as keyword and got quite a few hits, including this marriage:
James CRAWLEY & Elizabeth BEARD 24 October 1814

Also banns:
James CRAWLEY & Sarah KEEN, w. 2, 9, 16 October 1785
with the annotation that "The following entries in the banns book are not among the marriages recorded in this Volume; this does not necessarily mean that the marriages did not take place elsewhere."

And looking further for any kind of Crawleys:
James SHELTON & Sarah CRAWLEY 26 January, 2, 9 February 1812
Nathan CRAWLEY & Mary MOLES 25 March 1799
Richard BURCHELL & Sarah CRAWLEY, w. 21 November 1771
John HAWKINS & Ann CRAWLEY, lic. 18 August 1765
William CRAWLEY & Rebecca MILLS, lic. 27 December 1763
William LLOYD & Mary CRAWLEY, both of T. 22 April 1755
Nathan CRAWLEY, of Edmonton, & Mary STRONG, of T. 18 January 1755

I guess some of those were banns and some were marriages. I'm starting to fall asleep! :d

[Janet]

And could this be your James Crawley bap. 15 May 1825? The age (age 26, see last line of case) is pretty close, as this case was tried on 15 August 1853.

http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?path=sessionsPapers%2F18530815.xml

If so, then this would be the son of the man you're actually looking for, I gather. I'm a bit lost in all these Crawleys! :confused:

[Merry]

Yes Janet - everything you have surmised is correct! I just need you to find a baptism for James Crawley about 1790 :D. I would particularly like it if you could make the parents Nathan Crawley and Mary Moles who stared their family about ten years before they remembered to get married, but don't seem to have had a James!

If you could do the above then I might be able to connect my tree to OH's!

My 4xg-grandfather was another Nathan Crawley who lived about 25 miles away about three generations before James was born in Tottenham and the forename (Nathan rather than Nathaniel) is sprinkled liberally over his tree. My Nathan's descendants had connections with Edmonton which is the next-door parish to Tottenham.

James Crawley's descendents married into my OH's tree several times over in a really complicated web, so it would be great to make the connection if there is one! How irritating it is that James isn't showing up in the baptism records and what a shame the court case didn't need to go back one more generation for proof of the right to reside in the parish!!!

Thanks for your interest Janet. I haven't seen the Old Tottenham site before so am going to check that out now...........

[Janet]

How irritating it is that James isn't showing up in the baptism records and what a shame the court case didn't need to go back one more generation for proof of the right to reside in the parish!!!
I haven't seen the Old Tottenham site before so am going to check that out now...........

I was thinking that too. Good luck! Over and out for now. :)