View Full Version : Australian Immigration Puzzle
Following on from my earlier thread about the immigration of Henry and Harriet Clayfield to Australia on 10 Mar 1839, I now have a little mystery.
They were bounty immigrants - i.e. their passage was paid for by a prospective employer in Australia and a bounty was paid to an agent in England for finding them. It is unlikely they could have afforded the fare themselves and the journey was a gruelling 17 weeks.
With them travelled three children - Septima 10, Ann 7 and Jane 5. Searching the New South Wales records for the children born after they arrived in 1839, I have also found birth records for these earlier children and a death of an Emily in 1828. The couple married in Bristol in 1827.
Does anyone have an explanation for how they got to Australia unrecorded so soon after their marriage and how they could have got back to England, only to return again in 1839, needing assistance with the fare ? Something seems very odd to me.
Rick.
kiterunner
08-09-11, 21:57
Couldn't the children have been born in England and baptised when they got to Australia?
Couldn't the children have been born in England and baptised when they got to Australia?
Sorry I should have been clearer - they are NSW birth records from 1828, 1831 and 1833.
Rick.
kiterunner
08-09-11, 22:01
Civil registration of births started in NSW in 1856 according to their own BMD site:
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/historyofRegistrysRec.htm
kiterunner
08-09-11, 22:04
Oops, sorry, you found a death too - I was thinking they might have had them baptised in NSW when the children were older and had their dates of birth put on the baptisms, but there wouldn't be a death record in that case. Hmmm...
Definitely looks like a birth rather than a baptism and the same data is at
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/IndexSearch?form=IndexingSearch&SessionID=29588826&sname=clayfield&gname=&fname=henry&mname=&event=births&frange=1825&trange=1875&place=
Name:
Septima Clayfield
Birth Date:
1829
Father's Name:
Henry Clayfield
Mother's Name:
Harriet
Birth Place:
New South Wales
Registration Year:
1829
Registration Place:
Field of Mars, Parramatta, New South Wales
Volume Number:
V18291231 55
Source Information:
Ancestry.com. Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2010.
Original data: Compiled from publicly available sources.
kiterunner
08-09-11, 22:24
Yes, they have the pre-civil registration church baptism records on that site.
Oops, sorry, you found a death too - I was thinking they might have had them baptised in NSW when the children were older and had their dates of birth put on the baptisms, but there wouldn't be a death record in that case. Hmmm...
That's exactly what I thought at first before finding the death. I can understand how they might have made an assisted outbound journey twice as bounty immigration started in 1828, but there should be a record of the first journey and how did they get back to England ?
kiterunner
08-09-11, 22:25
The children all have native place given as Brighton on the passenger list.
Where is Emily's death record, please, I can't find it?
tenterfieldjulie
08-09-11, 23:35
All V Nos are baptismal records. We have them on microfilm at our library. Have you seen the original record for bounty migrants. The transcription could be wrong. Could it read 1829 not 1839? Rick I'll try to get the library tomorrow and see what the records say. It looks to me like they have come out and gone back as there is a ten year gap between baptisms. Is it possible that he was in the Military, if so you won't find their shipping the first time.
I also cannot find the death record for Emily Clayfield in 1828.
The IGI records for births for Septima, Ann And Jane are submitted entries only and look like they may have been taken from the immigration records - which records the dates but does not say whether they are birth or baptism.
The IGI does not say they were baptised or born in England, - immigration records them as Baptist (Babtist) and the daughters married at the Wesleyan Methodist Church, so it is possible these are birth dates. Non-conformists were more likely to record birth dates as some did not practice infant baptism. (Some one else may know whether the Baptists did or not ?)
The immigration records show that they arrived on the ship SUSAN on 10 Mar 1839.
Henry was an Engineer (J -Journeyman Millwright) and his native place was Brighton, and Harriet was from Horsley, Gloucestershire, but the children were born in Brighton. It seems they married in Bristol, but its worth checking.
The NSW birth/baptism records show Septima as recorded in 1829, which makes her the right age when 'returning" in 1839, it would be worth looking up the microfilm to see if there is any information on the parents.
If for some reason Henry and Harriet, or Emily, were in NSW in 1828-33 and returned to England, it will be difficult to find any records of voyages, but you might find some reference in the Colonial Secretary's records at NSW state records. The Colonial Secretary, originally, secretary to the Governor, kept all the records of the early colony.
Di
Just popping in here to remind myself to come back after the hairdressers.....I have some ideas.
Olde Crone
09-09-11, 10:33
For what it's worth, I think Baptists only baptise adults, not children.
OC
kiterunner
09-09-11, 10:41
I've got some Baptists in my tree who were baptised at about 14 - 17 years old.
I can't find the death in the NSW records myself now. Going back to my scribblings in my notebook, I've written it in a different place to the births so I have a suspicion it came from an Ancestry tree (there are several with this family in). Apologies if that has wasted anyone's time.
That must mean Kiterunner was right all along :). These must be pre-civil registration births recorded at a baptist chapel at the time of baptism. As baptists don't believe in infant baptism, that is most likely why they are so long after the births.
All of which means the older children were born in England and there only ever was one journey to Australia. I'm very happy with that as it makes a lot more sense.
Thanks for all of your contributions.
Rick.
Hi Rick
Do you know that you can look at the microfilms of the original baptism records for those times ?
With civil registration only the indexes are availabe to the public, but the baptism registers were collected by State Records and microfilmed. They are part of the Genealogical Ark distributed to many local and family history libraries and you can look at them quite easily.
I think that's what Julie was going to look at, but I can also have a look at my local library - the State Library also has the microfilms. If you can manage a visit to Parramatta Local History library, they also have all the local papers and there might be an obituary for Henry. I could have a look if you cannot get there.
I think you might have found the death of Emily on an ancestry tree - maybe she was born and died in England before they came out ???
It's a good little mystery to dig into, and it would be so satisfying to find YOU are right and everyone else has not bothered to do the proper checking on this !!
Di
Back again.......sorry I fell asleep last night when i was going to post.
I had a similar issue and it took me ages to sort.
My person, James Louis Burrows is on the NSW Index Births for 1838 and 1850. I assumed the 1st James died and they re-used the name........then....I found the family arriving in NSW in 1849.
In a nutshell....
James was born in Wales in 1839.
The family arrived here in 1849.
James and his younger sister, Jane (1845) were both baptised here in 1850. The index gives both their birth dates and baptism dates.
Hi Rick
If you can manage a visit to Parramatta Local History library, they also have all the local papers and there might be an obituary for Henry. I could have a look if you cannot get there.
Di
A lovely idea Di - I'll just book my flight :d I'm in Gloucestershire, England where the Jobbins and Clayfield families originate. With the poor summer we have had a trip to Australia would be a welcome break.
I would be very grateful if anyone with access to the microfilm could confirm what we now think is true and the children were born in England - and the birth details are actually part of the Baptist chapel record-keeping. Hopefully you're right that's what Julie meant.
It is true what you say that several people have published this in their trees without checking but I must admit to feeling stupid myself when I realised I had written the death of Emily down almost next to the NSW records and didn't note down where I found it.
HarrysMum - you hit the nail on the head !
tenterfieldjulie
10-09-11, 01:12
Sorry I didn't get to the library this morning Rick. They are definitely from a baptismal register as they have the V number (Volume). I would be very surprised if they are Baptist though, as I have not come across any in Aus at that date. I would think they are more than likely Anglican and the children were baptised together with their birth date given as Libby says. Will try and get to the library this week if Di doesn't get there first .. absolutely freezing icy wind here today after some balmy days it brings you back to earth.. hence only the cats have been outside and even they are pleased to come back in lol
Sorry Rick, did not realise you were over there in Gloucestershire !! Will try and go to the library early next week. I still write things down and forget to note where I got the info. Now I try and make a note, even if its just copying the website address into the notes field.
It's turned cold again here too, Julie - just a reminder that winter was not all that long ago. At least its not raining at the moment.
Di
Hi Rick
This info will solve your mystery - they did only come to Australia once, in 1839 and it is unlikely you will find any evidence of the girls birth in England, as they were Baptists. Perhaps only a burial record for Emily who may have died before they left England.
Once in Parramatta, Henry and Harriet Clayfield appear to have joined the Wesleyan Methodist Church and had all the children baptised therein.
In an anomaly of the NSW birth registration index, the children are indexed under their birth year instead of registration year, just to confuse things. But then, registration under their baptism year would have also confused the issues.
So baptised at the Parramatta Methodist Church, the children of Henry and Harriet Clayfield, of Parramatta, engineer (except Septima where it says Weaver)
Septima - born 29 Sep 1829, baptised 24 Aug 1848
Anne - born 14 Jul 1831, baptised 10 Oct 1847
Jane - born 14 No 1833, baptised 11 Nov 1847
the rest were born after the arrival in NSW, but baptised at the same time as Jane -
Edward - born 10 Jan 1843 baptised 11 Nov 1847
Rebecca - born 10 Jan 1843, baptised 11 Nov 1847 (so Edwards twin)
Amelia -born 27 Mar 1845, baptised 11 Nov 1847
and
Matthew born 12 Nov 1849 and batpised 12 Nov 1849
I would be happy to print out the microfilmed records and either mail, or scan and email the pages to you. Its really only 3 pages as the four baptisms together are all on one page.
Diane
That's great Di.
It can be a real trick the way that indexing is done. They indexed all of mine under both years....birth and baptism....lol. Took ages to sort out.
Just a note for young players re Qld Indexes. I've now found three deaths indexed for men who had died years before in the war overseas. Seems a registrar with OCD tendencies decided to index them all the year he worked there....lol
Mary from Italy
12-09-11, 18:03
Is it just me, or does that first baptism look a bit odd? Why would Septima be baptised after all the others if she was the oldest?
And why would they call the first child Septima? They had 7 children, so she should have been the 7th.
Also odd that Ann was baptised just a month before 4 of the others were baptised together.
Ann may have needed a 'quick' baptism for a job somewhere and then the parents decided (or had it decided for them) to 'do' the rest.
Good point about Septima though. Maybe she was the eldest and already living away from home. Odd about the name though.
Thanks Di - that's brilliant !! The indexing certainly confused me and I'm glad that mystery is solved. Unless there's extra information to be had from the images, I don't particularly need to see them, although it is very kind of you to offer. I'm trying to trace all of the sideshoots of a branch which scattered to the four winds. Next stop is Canada !
I'm guessing Septima is named after her month of birth. I'm wondering if Anne was baptised first as she was due to marry in 1848, but that led to the methodist church and the subsequent conversion and baptisms fof the remaining children.
Rick.
I think you are right Rick, about Anne being baptised to be married. then all the others, except Septima. Maybe she resisted because she was older, maybe she was just away working at the time ? 11 Nov 1847 was a Thursday while 10 Oct was a Sunday.
Interestingly there are 31 trees listed on ancestry for Septima - three have no birth info, all except two have NSW as her birthplace. One says Bristol and the other says Mars. Has no-one else looked at the Immigration records where her mother said she was born in Brighton, or did they not believe it ?
With the images of the assisted migrants registers digitised on-line for quite a while, you might think that at least one person had looked up the images and seen what it says !!
If the ancestry trees are correct about Emily being buried in 1828, then she would have been the first-born and was probably born and buried in Bristol or Brighton. None of the trees have any information other than the year of burial !!
Di
Di....I think a lot of people did what I (and Rick) did and either discounted the ones on the index or thought they'd died and 'new' children had taken the names.
It's apity I suppose the index doesn't state year of birth or year of baptism beside the years.
I know my James Burrows sent me on a merry chase.
There are loads of trees with two James Burrows obviuosly thinking the earlier one had died as they have 1839 for his birth and before 1850 for his death, then the other James as being born 1850.
tenterfieldjulie
12-09-11, 22:20
Well done Di. A lesson for us all if we are looking for discrepancies in birth years.
The only thing I'm a bit dubious about now is Brighton. Henry's parents were from Horsley and had a son Edward baptised there in 1806, the year before Henry was baptised in Brighton. No other children are recorded, which may be because the Horsley records online stop in 1806. The parents are in Wotton-under-Edge in 1851.
Harriet was born in Horsley after her parents moved there from Wotton-under-Edge.
I think the immigration list where the native place says Brighton for the Clayfields has just been copied down from Henry's. It incorrectly says Harriet is from there, but on the individual page for her it says Horsley.
I'd say the children were almost certainly born in Gloucestershire.
Rick.
Hi Rick
It does seem more plausible that the girls were born in Bristol rather than Brighton. I am sure the immigration clerks weren't overly fussed.
That said, some families seem to move all over the place. One of my Brighton familes married in London and had two children there, but travelled back to Brighton to have them baptised.
My great grandfather was born (to a Warwickshire/Shorpshire family) in York Town/Frimley/Sandhurst/Blackwater, according to various sources which are all basically the same town on the Surrey/Berkshire/Hampshire border. For some reason, probably work, his family was there in 1860, but back in Birmingham by the 1861 census. His half-brother was born apparently in New York USA during a similarly brief trip !!
Being Baptists, it will be difficult to find evidence of the Clayfields in Bristol - unless they belonged to a Baptist Chapel and the births were registered there. You might one day find Emily's burial depending which part of Bristol they lived in. Maybe one of the girl's Australian death certificates might have a correct birthplace. But seeing you don't really need them, if you go to all that expense, it will probably say "England" like a couple of mine.
WHen I go back to Parramatta Library, which may not be for a couple weeks, as we are going away for a week, I will try and remember to look at the local papers for years of Septima Jane and Ann's deaths - there might be an obituary - there's nothing I can see in Trove.
Di
Thanks Di - I really appreciate all of your help (and of course opinions).
What I'm really hoping is that the Jobbins baptisms are in the Shortwood (Horsley) Baptist records. The IGI records for Horsley (both Anglican and Baptist) stop in 1806 and Harriet's parents married in 1805. I think I've found two sisters for Harriet too and a burial for their father in Wotton-under-Edge. Not bad considering I thought it was a "dead" side branch until a couple of weeks ago.
I'm not sure where the Australian descendants got Emily from - could be handed down stories I suppose.
Rick.
anne fraser
16-09-11, 07:56
Although baptists have adult baptisms the churches often have a craddle roll where new babies are recorded so you might be able to find them in England.
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