Mary

[geniebug]

This week, we are focussing on your mother's father's mother's mother's mother's mother.

Name - "official" name and what they were known as Mary .....
Date and place of birth -
Names of parents -
Date and place of baptism - if applicable -
Details of each of his or her marriages - if any - (husbands surname Harris)
Occupation(s) - if any N/A
Addresses where they lived (including county if in UK) - and please list which censuses you have or haven't found him/her on (if s/he lived in census times!). -
Date, place and cause of death -
Date and place of burial.
Details of will / administration of their estate - if applicable
Memorial inscription - if any -

Her daughter was Elizabeth Harris, who was born abt 1800 in Overbury Worc Eng. This daughter died (Elizabeth Cook) 12 July 1872, Overbury, Worc. Elizabeth was 41 at the time of Census in 1841.

[Merry]

How do you know Elizabeth's mother was called Rhoda?

[geniebug]

I'm so sorry Merry, that should read Mary, not Rhoda. Can you change my heading please, and I will edit the other bit.

[Merry]

lol! That's a shame!!

I'll change the heading now.

[Merry]

Oh, and how do you know her name was Mary!?

[Merry]

?????????? Possible?


BETTY HARRIS Pedigree
Female


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Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 20 DEC 1801 Overbury, Worcester, England

Death:
Burial:


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Parents:
Father: JOHN HARRIS Family
Mother: MARY


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Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record.

[Merry]

I see she is with the Cooks in 1841 (doesn't make her Elizabeth's mother though!)

To see if she is, you could get the death cert that goes with this burial:

First name(s): Mary
Last name: HARRIS
Date of burial: 30 Sep 1843
Age at death: 87
Calculated year of birth: 1756
Place of burial: Overbury
Dedication: St Faith
County: Worcestershire

Hopefully it will say she is John's widow and it would be nice if the relationship to the informant is given, but I'm not sure when they started asking for that info?

[Merry]

Hmmmm....from Certificate Tutorials website:

By 1875 the relationship of the informant to the deceased was given

maybe we can just hope it says she is John's widow!

[geniebug]

lol

I have an 1841 census for John Cook - the son in law - Im not sure if Mary's name was on the next page (as I dont have a copy of the next page.
I had manually typed it out and Mary Henry, aged 82 was on the bottom of the list.
Mary Henry b abt 1759 82

That is all I know. The age was right for John Cook (b 1799) aged 42. It listed his wife and children also.

[geniebug]

Would knowing her surname was Henry help at all?
Where is the best place to get death certs in england?
Maybe Henry is wrong - I'd have to get someone to check the 1841 census again for me. The one I have is HO 107/1202/18 (I think its 18, looks like 16) and its the Parish of Overbury. John Cooks family was listed at the bottom right hand corner, it may well have gone to the next page. I have 8 children listed for him

[Merry]

When I looked at the 1841 earlier, the name was mistranscribed as Henry but it's clearly Mary Harris on the actual page (and Yes it was on the following page as you said).

[Merry]

Where is the best place to get death certs in england?


From the GRO (order online with a credit/debit card and yoy pay no extra postage etc)

Deaths Sep 1843
HARRIS Mary Tewkesbury Vol 11 Page 290

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificate/index.asp#0

[geniebug]

Thanks Merry re death cert info. I will alter my records to Harris then.

[geniebug]

You suggested I get the Mary Cook death certificate
It reads
Mary Harris died 26th Sept 1843 Overbury, Worcestershire - female, 84 years, widow of John Harris, Labourer.
Died of natural debility. The Mark x of Esther Harris, present at the death. Registered 27th Sept 1843. No. 332
Date of burial 30 Sept 1843. Age at death 87, calculated year of birth 1756, place of burial 1756 = dedication St Faith, Country Worcestershire.

You were hoping John had predeceased her, and he had.

*****skip this part, look at the last entry which I've just found.

I've worked it out I have to get the following information

the marriage on film
groom's name: John*Harris*bride's name: Mary Gilbird*marriage date: 24 Jun 1799*marriage place: Overbury,Worcester,England*indexing project (batch) number: M04565-1*system origin: England-ODM*source film number: 465285*

Tho, what would it prove, if I am looking for film for the mother of Elizabeth, of whom we can only find the following birth baptism?

There's a baptism for Mary GILBERT thus:name: Mary Gilbert*gender: Female*baptism/christening date: 22 Nov 1778*baptism/christening place: Overbury, Worcester, England*father's name: Thos. Gilbert*mother's name: Eliz.*indexing project (batch) number: I03815-1*system origin: England-EASy*source film number: 325634*And likely burials for her parents in Overbury:

groom's name: John*Harris*bride's name: Mary Gilbird*marriage date: 24 Jun 1799*marriage place: Overbury,Worcester,England*indexing project (batch) number: M04565-1*system origin: England-ODM*source film number: 465285*

One Mary died -Mary Harris died 26th Sept 1843 Overbury, Worcestershire - female, 84 years, widow of John Harris, Labourer.
Died of natural debility. The Mark x of Esther Harris, present at the death. Registered 27th Sept 1843. No. 332
Date of burial 30 Sept 1843. Age at death 87, calculated year of birth 1756, place of burial 1756 = dedication St Faith, Country Worcestershire

She was on the 1841 census with 1841 Census for Overbury, Worc., shows,
John Cook aged 42 (not of the parish),
Elizabeth Cook, 41, of the parish,
William 18,
Miriam 16,
Ann 14,
Joseph 11,
Mary 2,
Sarah, 6,
Martha 4 and
Rhoda 1.

This was suggested
The only John and Mary burials who are old enough to be Elizabeth's parents are these:18 Jun 1828 John HARRIS 73 Worcs Overbury, St Faith 30 Sep 1843 Mary HARRIS 87 Worcs Overbury, St Faith (see death cert details above for Mary)

The other Mary apparently is still alive in 1861
Mary*Harris*is still alive in 1861. I was hoping she would be living with family members of some sort, but sadly not:1861 OverburyMary*Harris*head wid 82 shoemaker's widow b Overbury, WorcsRG9; Piece: 1805; Folio: 23; Page: 10

One thing that puzzles me, is who is Esther Harris (mentioned in one of the Mary's death certificate)

I have just found this
Mary Harris
1796-1853Born: Overbury WorcestershireDied: Worcester, Worcestershire, , England
Family Members
Father
John Harris 1755-1828
Mother
Mary Clarke 1759-1843
Sister
Elizabeth Harris 1780-
Brother
William Harris 1783-
Brother
John Harris 1785-
Brother
Joseph Harris 1787-
Sister
Betty Harris 1789-
Sister
Ann Harris 1789-
Brother
Charles Harris 1795-1823
Brother
Thomas Harris 1795-1823
Sister
Betty Harris 1801-
I looked at the tree, and saw that John Harris had a sister Hester Harris born 1754 (who apparently did not marry)

Do you think this is a possiblity then?

Incidentally the parents of John Harris (& Hester) were Wiliam Harris & Elizabeth Allard