Can anyone solve the mystery of Margaret A Norman please?

[JBee]

She appears in the 1891 census in Ashton on Ribble as being the 6 year old daughter of Frank and Annie Norman born Lewes (Lower) Broughton Lancashire but I cannot find a birth for her. 1891 RG12; Piece: 3447; Folio 187; Page 79; GSU roll: 6098557

As Frank Norman and Annie (Bresland) didn't marry until 31 May 1891 in Ashton on Ribble she could have been a daughter of Annie from a previous marriage/relationship as I can't find a Margaret A Norman in 1901 census or a death iirc.

Frank is unmarried in 1881 - Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 3126; Folio: 118; Page: 50; GSU roll: 1341745. However by 1901 Frank and Annie have split up.

In 1901 Frank (Ashby) is living with a Sarah Ashby and her children including a son Frank Norman born 1898 but no sign of Margaret Class: RG13; Piece: 3758; Folio: 10; Page: 12. Frank and Sarah marry on 6 May 1906 in Droylesden where he says he's a batchelor!!!! He dies on 27 Nov 1908 in Prestwich.

Annie is living as married to James Andrews in Burnley - again no sign of a Margaret. Annie gives Norman as her maiden name on her son's birth certificate. RG13; Piece: 3861; Folio: 120; Page: 13. No marriage found.

I haven't got an earlier census for Annie.

If I could find the birth of Margaret A ?? it might help solve a big mystery of who/where Annie was in 1885 or if I've gone completely off on a tangent.

Any help much appreciated.

[kiterunner]

Annie is living as married to James Andrews in Burnley - again no sign of a Margaret. She gives Norman as her maiden name on her son's birth certificate. No marriage found.


Can I just check, please - who gives Norman as her maiden name, Annie or Margaret?

[JBee]

Sorry I haven't got anything for Margaret A Norman except in the 1891 census when she's down as the daughter of Frank and Annie Norman. She seems to disappear and wonder if its a mistake and she's either a visitor or not related.

In 1901 Annie is now calling herself Annie Andrews (but no marriage found) but on son's birth certificate she gives her maiden name as Norman.

[kiterunner]

All I could find was a Mary Breslin from Ireland born about 1857 living in Broughton in 1881 who could possibly be related to Annie, and a Margaret A Bresland who got married in Ireland in 1900 but I would think a bit older than your Margaret. Sorry!

[JBee]

That's more than I could find Kite - thank you.

[JBee]

Shucks - Don't think it's connected as it's Broughton, Salford not Broughton Preston and it says born in Dublin whereas Annie in 1911 census says she came from Fermanagh.

[ElizabethHerts]

In 1901 Frank (Ashby) is living with a Sarah Ashby and her children including a son Frank Norman born 1898 but no sign of Margaret Class: RG13; Piece: 3758; Folio: 10; Page: 12. Frank and Sarah marry on 6 May 1906 in Droylesden where he says he's a batchelor!!!! He dies on 27 Nov 1908 in Prestwich.



Why would Frank Norman call himself Frank Ashby, and how do you know that it is the same man?

[ElizabethHerts]

For the record, and for others who may research, this is the first marriage:

Marriage: 31 May 1891 St Andrew, Ashton on Ribble, Lancashire, England
Frank Norman - 30 Labourer Bachelor of 29 Swansea St.
Annie Bresland - 31 Spinster of 29 Swansea St.
Groom's Father: Elisha Norman, Labourer
Bride's Father: James Bresland, Farmer
Witness: William Mercer; Eliza Jane Mercer
Married by Banns by: A. W. Wiseman Vicar
Register: Marriages 1894 – 1896, Page 180, Entry 359
Source: LDS Film 1471019

[kiterunner]

This is the Ashby family in 1891, at 30 Hyde Street, Salford:
Sarah Ashby Head M 34 Wharfwoman On the High Seas
John do Son S 12 Scholar Lancashire Salford
Mary A Do Daur S 8 Do Do Do
Emily Do Daur S 6 Do Do Do
Lilly Do Daur S 3 do Do
Ada Do Daur S 2 Do Do

[JBee]

Thank you so much Kite.

The witnesses to Frank & Annie's wedding in 1891 are neighbours and I couldn't find a connection.

Yes I believe he is the same Frank Norman as his place of birth is Oadby on the censuses.

I can't find a birth for Frank Ashby in 1897 but can for a Frank Norman in Prestwick. In 1901 census they are all Ashby's but in the 1911 census Sarah Ashby now Norman and a widow is with her daughters Emily, Lilly and Ada Ashby and 13 year old son Frank Norman.

The marriage to Sarah Ashby of Frank Norman gives his father's name as Elisha which is the same as on his first marriage to Annie Bresland.

I also have the the death certificate of Frank Norman which was registered by his step-son John Ashby.

I can only conclude that he was trying to hide a bigamous marriage.

It's probably the reason I can't find a marriage for Annie (Norman/Bresland) to James Andrews as she was still legally married to Frank.