John Murton 4 X Grandfather

[borobabs]

Name - "official" name and what they were known as
John Murton

Date and place of birth
Abt 1791 Norfolk

Names of parents
????

Date and place of baptism - if applicable
Diss Norfolk ??

Details of each of his or her marriages - if any
Frances Allen ??? date not found

Occupation(s) - if any
??? would imagine ag lab

Addresses where they lived (including county if in UK) - and please list which censuses you have or haven't found him/her on (if s/he lived in census times!)
????

Date, place and cause of death
Think 17 June 1863 but this could be his son John just don’t know

Date and place of burial.
Diss Norfolk

Details of will / administration of their estate - if applicable
Memorial inscription - if any
???

[borobabs]

Have found this burial on freereg but not sure if its him or his son ???,,arghhhhhhhhhh

Burial St Marys Diss Norfolk
Death from freereg ;;
County Norfolk
Place Diss
Church St Mary
Register Number46
Burial Date 17June1863
Forename John
Relationship Rel1Male
Forename Rel1Female
Forename Rel1Surname
Surname MURTON
Age81
Abode Diss Norfolk
Notes File Number 16492

[ElizabethHerts]

Can't you tell by the age and probable year of birth, Babs?

[borobabs]

I have his sons birth as 1794 but you know what its like that far back ;;

County Norfolk

Place Banham

Church St Mary At

RegisterNumber

DateOfBirth 21 Nov 1794

BaptismDate 24 Nov 1794

Forename John

Sex M

FatherForename John

MotherForename Frances

FatherSurname MURTON

MotherSurname ALLEN

Abode

FatherOccupation

Notes Privately Baptised. Late ALLEN Spinster.

FileNumber 5831

The Name Allen spring up few times withing the family trees so know its right one ,,
but was he older when baptised , as going by that burial it should be 1786

[kiterunner]

I don't think you did a TO3G for John Murton jr, Babs, so I'm working backwards from your TO2G about Stephen Murton (the grandson of the John of this thread), may take a little while.

This is Stephen on the 1841 census at The Heywood, Diss, Norfolk:
John Murton 50 Ag Lab Y
Ann Do 50 Y
Stephen Do 20 Y
David Do 15 Y
Fisher Do 14 Y
Robert Do 8 Y
William Do 8 Y
Mary Do 1 Y.

You have Stephen's baptism with his parents as John and Ann, so it looks as though he is with his parents in 1841. So John jr was born about 1786-1791. I'll have a look for him on the 1851 and 1861 to (hopefully) get a more accurate place and year of birth for him but I'm guessing that burial you found is John jr. Presumably if you have the names of John jr's parents, though, you have his baptism already? (Edit - I see you have!)

[kiterunner]

Okay, this is John jr (Stephen's father) in 1851, at Mount Street, Diss:
John Murton Head Mar 63 Ag Lab Shelfanger Norfolk
Ann Do Wife Mar 62 Kelverton Do.

[kiterunner]

And in 1861 at Walcot Green, Diss:
William Murton Head Un 25 Agricultural Labourer Shelfanger Norfolk
John Do Father Widower 77 Do ____ Suffolk

So it looks as though the burial in 1863 will be for John jr. I think we need to find John jr's marriage to Ann next unless you already have it?

[borobabs]

Oh I love you Kate and to think I have that census and never say that John seniour was on there ;;

[kiterunner]

No, it's John jr on the census!

[borobabs]

I cannot find how where I have that census in my tree Im getting very mixed up with myself here due to daughter and fella using lappy in background ,,
I know I have that census as you Kate found it for me for one of my lot but cannot for some reason find the William your refering to ;;

[kiterunner]

Okay, the Banham baptism in 1794 is definitely for a John who was born 21 Nov 1794, it is in the Archdeacon's Transcripts on FamilySearch. Can you say where the name Allen appears later on in your tree, please, Babs, as I'm not sure this is the right baptism for John jr?

[borobabs]

Phew right will go have a look now they have gone home and peace reigns for 2 mins

[borobabs]

Right for some reason my tree has been doubled up from John I have the one I have and posted the other has

john Murton

http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/4288338/person/-1543930929


John MurtonBirth 1788
Shelfhanger, Norfolk
Death
Family Info
Father Peter Murton (1758-)
Mother Frances Spargo (1758-)
Spouse Ann Turner-Scott (1789-)
Married 1809
Children Stephen (1819-1895)
David (1826-)
Fisher (1827-1915)
William (1832-) Mary (1840-)


Sorry Kate doesnt look like I have saved the souces for the other Allens ;;

[kiterunner]

Looking at the Peter Murton / Frances Spargo public trees on ancestry, that bit looks unlikely. I'll have a look later and see if I can figure anything out.

[borobabs]

I k now I followed one before but then me and Polly got mail on GR from someone who said it went back to a Cornwall line and for us to remove from our trees as she lived down there and had researched extensively

[kiterunner]

I'm getting confused now - do you know why you have Ann (John jr's wife) down as Ann Turner-Scott? I've only found a few of their children's baptisms online but they all list her just as Ann Turner.

Stephen baptised 27 Feb 1820 Shelfanger All Saints, parents John Murton and Ann Turner, father's occupation labourer
John baptised 28 Apr 1824 Shelfanger Baptist, parents John Murton and Ann Turner
Fisher baptised 16 Oct 1826 Shelfanger Baptist, parents John Murton and Ann Turner.

[kiterunner]

And Norfolk Baptism Project lists two more baptised at Shelfanger All Saints under the surname Murtin - both baptised 29 Jul 1832, William and Robert, parents John and Ann, but it doesn't give Ann's maiden name on those.

[kiterunner]

I wonder whether this family is related to John? They are the household just before John and Ann on the 1841 census:
Robert Murton 50 Ag Lab Y
Susan Do 45 Y
Robert Do 12 Y
--
Mary Reeder 25 Y
William Do Y

[kiterunner]

In case it is any help, this is Robert Murton in 1851 at Street, Shelfanger:
Robert Murton Head Mar 60 Agricultural Labr Shelfanger Norfolk
Susan Do Wife Mar 57 Tackelstone Norfolk.

[borobabs]

I have Robert b 1832 living with wife Rebecca at Diss norfolk ???

[borobabs]

No not in 1851 but have found a Robert Martin shelfhanger at Halstone

[borobabs]

Sorry hadnt see your early posts there Kate , I had her as Ann Turner but quite a few trees have her as Turner Scott ,,???
This is a family where they all have large families and fedw sets of twins in each geeneration and they all call there children by the same names going on for years , I was so pleased when it got to later yrs and they started calling them dif names

[kiterunner]

Right.

That Robert who I posted from the 1841 and 1851 censuses is not the one born 1832; I was wondering if he might be John's brother as he was born around 1790 at Shelfanger the same as John. FamilySearch doesn't have the Shelfanger PR's, unfortunately, but it does have the Archdeacon's Transcripts up to 1812 so I'm just going to have a look in there to see if there are any Murtons.

[borobabs]

I am just looking at my notebook Kate I am linked up to 10 people on GR whos trees I havnt looked at for a while , Yes I thought you meant his brother after I had posted ,,but went looking for book ;;of to nosy through some of these trees see if I cn throw any answers here to you as well ;;

[borobabs]

Wow gosh how many have took there trees off or left or shortened them ,,
right have one person who is still adamant that the next gen back from John Sn is
Peter Murton and Fances Spargo , with family
John 1785
Williiam 1791
Roobert 1796

[kiterunner]

Okay, I've looked through the Shelfanger Archdeacon's Transcripts and Bishop's Transcripts from 1780 through to 1799 (except for 1783 which seems to be missing from both) and no John Murton baptism in there, so the Banham one you found could be the right one. There are a couple of Roberts - one baptised 3 Jun 1787, son of Robert and Rebecca, and one baptised 1 Nov 1789 son of William and Mary.

But there is still the possibility that your John was baptised at Shelfanger Baptist Church - I haven't found online pre-1812 baptisms for that church yet.

[borobabs]

I didnt know Shelfhangers were seperate Kate ,,well wonder who 's parent Lorna has got mentioned above ,,its dam hard proving stuff this far back isnt it

[borobabs]

Im nudging this back up as dont know if I should do new one or not , heads as clear as mud with this lot

[kiterunner]

It's not this John who you need to do a new thread for, Babs, it is his son John Murton jr who you need to do a TO3G thread for.

I'll find some of the info and send it to you so you know who I mean!

[kiterunner]

I've sent you a PM with the info in, Babs, and now I have found John jr's marriage to Ann Turner so I'm waiting for you to post the thread and I will post up the marriage details!

[borobabs]

Cheers Kate going up now