It just goes to show...

[Olde Crone]

Never never never leave any stone unturned no matter how unlikely it looks!

Last year on here you kindly helped me with my friend's grandfather, William Alfred Brown, international man of mystery, lol. He served in the RN during WW1, having gone in as a boy sailor. He never married my friend's grandmother because, it is rumoured, he was already married.

A kind member downloaded his service record and I duly passed this on to his daughter.. She was disappointed that it had no details of any marriage and begged me to look for a marriage for him - with a name like Brown it was impossible, and how would we know even if we found the right one.

She kept asking me to send to the MOD for his naval records. In vain I explained that as he had left the service in 1922, his records at TNA were all there was, the MOD would have nothing for him. She asked other people who told her that the MOD would have his records, grrrrr and she begged me to write to the MOD, so in the end I did, hoping she would finally believe me if she saw it in black and white.

MOD replied very quickly and told me that they could find no Naval record for him, surprise surprise BUT

They have a record for a man of the same name, same birth date, same death date who was in the RAF and left in 1945!!!!!! I'm gobsmacked. If it had been left to me, I would never have written to the MOD and look what I would have missed!

We are hoping the records may have details of his wife. It isn't clear from the MOD letter whether he was a career airman or whether he was conscripted.

OC

[Nell]

Wow, OC!

I do hope that the records have his elusive marriage.

I'd agree though, keep looking and eventually you'll often find stuff you thought would never appear.

[Olde Crone]

Nell

the funny thing was, I told her quite firmly a while ago that there was nowhere else to look and her only hope now was that something totally unexpected would appear. Well it just has!

OC

[kiterunner]

Wow, that's great! I hope there are some answers in there.

[Olde Crone]

Yes, I hope there are some answers too, but I do wonder a bit why she didn't remember her father being in the RAF during the war!!! She has now remembered that her father had a car during the war and that they were quite comfortably off.

OC

[Margaret in Burton]

How long did these records take OC? We sent for Fil's WW2 army records last August and still nothing since the conformation that they had received it.

[Merry]

I was going to say are you sure there are not two men with the same dob given the common name, but then I realised you said the MoD said they have the same date of death, so if he left in 1945 he must have been in receipt of a pension, otherwise they would have no reason to have his date of death.

There are no spouse or other family details on my father's RAF docs and he was in the service for about 33 years, so fingers crossed Mr Brown's record had more of that type of info.

[Olde Crone]

Oh Merry, it would just be too cruel if there is no detail!

Yes, I immediately thought two men same name, but I think the death cert clinches it, as you say they must already have had a copy of that.

Margaret

Haven't got the records yet and I am expecting a long wait. This letter is really just an acknowledgement and I need to reply to say that I do want the RAF records because I asked for Navy records in the original letter and for all they know, I may have his RAF records, or not be interested.

OC

[Merry]

Dad's RAF records came in 3 weeks. Father-in-law's army records came in 13 months.

[Kit]

That's wonderful for your friend OC. I hope it isn't a long wait for your friend or Margaret either.

[Olde Crone]

I'm thinking if he was conscripted in 1939, why wasn't he conscripted back into the Navy? He must have gone into the RAF as a career airman at some time prior to WW2.

OC

[Merry]

I'm thinking if he was conscripted in 1939, why wasn't he conscripted back into the Navy? He must have gone into the RAF as a career airman at some time prior to WW2.

OC

So, was he injured then? I can't see why he would have got a pension otherwise and if he didn't have a pension they wouldn't have his date of death as he left the service.

[Olde Crone]

There is talk that he was injured in a SUBMARINE but of course I had assumed that was during his Navy career.

He was demobbed/left the service in 1945 because he had TB and was advised to move to the country for the good of his health.

Someone has pm-ed me to say that even if his service record does mention a wife, her name will be blanked out because her name won't be the same as ther name of the woman on my friend's birth cert.

Fingers xxxxxd though.

OC

[Merry]

I'm amazed the MoD would go to so much trouble. Why would they care if the next of kin (the only person who should be obtaining the service record) is surprised by anything on it?

[Olde Crone]

Data Processing Act? Everyone is very twitchy about that even if they don't actually understand it - you aren't allowed to see details of any other person other than the one you are enquiring about?

I hope they mess it up though and forget to blank out. Watch this space!

OC

[Nell]

OC

By stating something so firmly and being proved wrong, you've created a dangerous precedent. We will all regard your future pronouncements with some scepticism now!!

[Olde Crone]

Oooh, Nell, that's not fair! I wasn't wrong, I was....blinkered. I was NOT expecting him to pop up in another service in WW2, especially as his daughter (who was 11 when war broke out) seems to be as surprised as I am!

However, I do feel slightly ashamed of myself as my own daughter went from the Army to the RAF, so I know it can happen!

OC

[Nell]

I retract my allegation unconditionally.

[Nell]

OC

If it helps my bro and I were just discussing how people find it hard to disregard their previous belief in something and he came up with a posh psychological term for it - which typically, after imbibing alcohol, he can't remember.

So you're in good company, apparently intellectuals find it hard to change tack too.

[Olde Crone]

*Tears up Libel papers*


Errrrrmmmmm...what EXACTLY do I make of the statement that "intellectuals find it hard to change tack TOO". Are you inferring that I am not an intellectual?

OC

[Uncle John]

*sniggers from the sidelines*

[Margaret in Burton]

OC

If it helps my bro and I were just discussing how people find it hard to disregard their previous belief in something and he came up with a posh psychological term for it - which typically, after imbibing alcohol, he can't remember.

So you're in good company, apparently intellectuals find it hard to change tack too.

*Tears up Libel papers*


Errrrrmmmmm...what EXACTLY do I make of the statement that "intellectuals find it hard to change tack TOO". Are you inferring that I am not an intellectual?

OC

I should get out of the hole you appear to be digging Nell.:D:D:D

*joins UJ sniggering*

[tenterfieldjulie]

Most definitely intelluctually stimulating OC, but I imagine Nell meant you aren't a boffin!!:d:d;)

[Nell]

I've not been hiding, I've been staying with my Mum with no internet access.

I didn't mean "too", I meant to include you among the intellectuals, OC. I thought someone of your cerebral vigour would have realised that.

[Olde Crone]

Oh Nell, of COURSE I realised that!

That's why I didn't have the swat team out looking for Nell who was hiding under her mum's spare bed.

OC

[Nell]

Swat team? That sounds a little ungenteel to me.

[Uncle John]

I thought someone of your cerebral vigour would have realised that.

Oohh! comparing OC to Professor Branestawm now!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor_Branestawm