Moses Carter

[BlueSavannah]

Afternoon Everyone,

I am a little stuck with my great x 4 grandfather, Moses Carter, and wondered if anyone wouldnt mind offering another pair of eyes on the census for me, or some advice on where to go from here.

I have him and his wife Ann on the 1851 census in Dunstable, Bucks. He says he is aged 40, a Labourer, and he was born Missenden, Bucks. The occupation matchs what his son gave as his occupation on his marriage certificate in 1874.

Apart from these two snippets of information, I cannot find him on the 41 census, or any census after.

I've found Ann Carter on the 61 census as head of the same house they were at in 1851 and she states she is married, though Moses isnt there. I cannot find Ann on the 71 census so presuming she might be dead by this date.

I have found a baptism on the familysearch site for a Moses Carter in 1820 (Moses born 1815) in Great Missenden which I have kept the details of incase he is mine.

If anyone can offer any guidance, I would really appreciate it :)

Claire

[tenterfieldjulie]

Claire have you asked Glen (Oakum Picker)?

[BlueSavannah]

Hi, I am sorry I dont know who Glen is. I can try and contact him but what am I asking him?

[tenterfieldjulie]

Glen is a lady Claire. Suggestions are you edit your heading and put Moses Carter, Buckinghamshire. When Glen comes online she should see it. When she is home she has done wonderful research for me at the RO there. My Ware family come from there too.
Otherwise you can send a Private Message Board in the top Menu to her as "Oakum Picker" asking for her suggestions.

[BlueSavannah]

ah ok, thank you. I will change the heading of this thread. Many apologies for writing the wrong sex :(

[Merry]

Dunstable, Bucks

Beds!!

I didn't know Glen is female either! I use another site where a member is called Old Dude and is female, so i should have been alert to the possibility! lol

[ElizabethHerts]

Claire, I don't know anything about boundary changes, but Dunstable is in Bedfordshire.

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/BDF/Dunstable/index.html

[ElizabethHerts]

In 1861 there is this Moses Carter lodging at Aston Clinton. He is married.

1861 Census
CARTER, Moses
AYLESBURY, Buckinghamshire
RG09 piece 867 folio 99 page 14

[Merry]

In 1851 the eldest son is 9 and b Kensington, so Moses in 1841 could be the one in New Brentford, Middlesex (under 5 miles away), aged 30, born out of county and a labourer.

[BlueSavannah]

omg, I have no idea why I keep writing Bucks for Dunstable when I know its in Bedfordshire :confused:. My pregnancy hormones are making me lose my marbles lol.

Ooh, that looks a possibility for Moses. Will take a look at him.

Claire

[BlueSavannah]

The eldest son John born aprox 1841 in Kensington is my great x 3 grandfather and I do need to purchase his birth cert to find out Ann's maiden name. For some reason, I had thought that Moses & Ann would have already been married by the time of the 1841 census but maybe they wernt.

I have tried to find John's baptism on the London baptism on Ancestry but nothing.

The New Brentford Moses is looking likely. Maybe they were married and he was living away from Ann again in 1841.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Probably said Bucks Claire because Missenden is there. I make scoodles of those mistakes and I can't blame pregnancy, well a 60 yr old widow is stretching things a bit there lol Merry and Elizabeth are amazing ... I called Glen a he too lol

[ElizabethHerts]

How about this marriage?

Day: 5
Month: Jan
Year: 1835
Groom Forenames: Moses
Groom Surname: CARTER
Bride Forenames: Ann
Bride Surname: CONWAY
Place: Hammersmith
County: Middlesex
Country: England
Record source: West Middlesex Marriage Index
Data provider: West Middlesex Family History Society

[tenterfieldjulie]

It he was a seasonal ag lab he could have been working away Claire. Here I know that fruit pickers often follow crops etc

[tenterfieldjulie]

Wow Elizabeth ... that is wonderful!!! I'm gettting excited for you Claire lol
Claire that your baby of yours is going to lots about it's ancestors.

[ElizabethHerts]

Hammersmith fits with Moses and family being in Kensington, so hopefully it is them.

[BlueSavannah]

Elizabeth, that marriage is looking very very promising. I must get that birth cert of John's now to check if Ann's surname is Conway. I am not having much luck with these London ancestry records. I cant see John's baptism or that marriage for Moses & Ann :(

[Merry]

Hmmm, there's a death in Brentford

Deaths Mar 1859
CARTER Moses Brentford 3a 32

before Ann says she is still married in 1861. I thought maybe that made the 1841 Moses the wrong one but I can't see a Moses Carter in New Brentford of the surrounds in 1851. Perhaps Moses left Ann and she didn't know what happened to him?

[Merry]

Did Ann say Hampstead for place of birth in 1861 too? There are Conway baps there around the turn of the century, but no Ann.

[ElizabethHerts]

Yes, Merry, she said Hampstead.

I note the census indicates a year of birth of c. 1807 or 1802 (depending on which census you look at) which makes her older than Moses and therefore perhaps this was a second marriage. :(

[Merry]

Pretty likely, I'd say.

[BlueSavannah]

Hi Merry, Yes, she says Hampstead as her birth place on both the 51 and 61 census. Her age is out though on both. She is 49 on the 51 census, and 54 on the 61 census.

[Merry]

Typically there is never one one reg:

Deaths Jun 1865
Carter Ann Luton 3b 277

Deaths Sep 1865
Carter Ann Luton 3b 273

[BlueSavannah]

It would have been nice for Dunstable to have been covered by the NBI for 1865 but its not on there at all :(

I think its highly likely one of those two is my Ann as I certainly cannot see her on the 71 census. I've found two of her son's on the 71 census elsewhere. The third, my John, is probably abroad as he was a soldier.

[ElizabethHerts]

This might possibly be another Moses Carter, but I'll put it here just in case:

vcp.e2bn.org/search/export.php?cmd=quicksearch...

1863,Moses,Carter,Neglect of Family,,,14 Days Hard Labour,,,48,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ..... Write Well,,,Aylesbury,Buckinghamshire,,Married,2,,,Luto n,Bedfordshire,,, ...

I googled "Moses Carter" and "Buckinghamshire".

[ElizabethHerts]

He was 48 in 1863 so born 1815. Looks promising.

[BlueSavannah]

oh, that looks interesting Elizabeth. Wonder if its possible to find out a little more about that.

[ElizabethHerts]

Recap:

1861 Ann and family in Dunstable, no Moses

1861 Moses possibly lodging at Aston Clinton. Married. See post 8.

1863 Moses possibly convicted for neglect of family. Post 25

1865 Possible death of Ann Carter Luton district. 2 possibilities. Poast 23


Possible:
1871 Census
CARTER, Moses
AYLESBURY, Buckinghamshire
RG10 piece 1413 folio 78 page 10
Widower Born Lee

See Google maps:
Lee, Great Missenden, Buckinghamshire

[BlueSavannah]

Many thanks for adding the recap.

I've had a look at the google maps and can see that Lee isnt that far from Great Missenden. Its a good likelihood that the Moses you have found on the 1871 census is the right on.

Thank you for all your help :)

[ElizabethHerts]

Claire, let us know what you discover when you receive the birth certificate.

Please also let us know about your impending arrival - when is your baby due?

*Goes into dappy mood!*

[BlueSavannah]

I will order the birth cert tomorrow when I get paid; however, there isnt an obvious John Carter than stands out on the indexes. There are quite a few and the only one that comes under the Kensington district has a middle name which I dont believe my John had.

I think I might order his brother Alfred's certificate as I have found the registration for that one in 1851.

ooooh, I have got a long long way to go yet with the little one, I am only 10 weeks at the moment but the hormone changes have already made me a little forgetful.

[ElizabethHerts]

You must be so excited, Claire, good luck with the pregnancy.

[BlueSavannah]

Thank you Elizabeth :)

I am excited but nervous. This is my first so got everything crossed all will be ok.

I am sure my many brickwalls will keep me busy for the next 30 weeks ;)

[ElizabethHerts]

OUr first grandchild was born last August, Claire. He is a bundle of joy.

I expect you will be having your first scan soon. It will be so exciting for you.

[Ruthie]

On the family search pilot site I found this....I hope it is of some use.

Moses Carter (death) 15-2-1897 Alysebury Buckinghshire (born 1818)

Also...

Moses Carter born 11-9-1815 Missenden Buckinghamshire......christened 7th May 1820.......parents Joseph and Ruth Cater.

[BlueSavannah]

Hi Ruthie,
I hadnt seen that death on the familysearch site but looks a good probable for him.

I am currently waiting for the birth certificate of Moses and Ann's son, Alfred in 1851, to arrive. I ordered it last Friday when I got paid.

I had seen the baptism in Great Missenden in 1820, it shows that that Moses was born in 1815. The only census I have Moses on that I know for sure is him is the 1851 census where he claimed he was 40 :rolleyes:! I have a feeling that anything he does appear on will show a varying year of birth for him :confused:

Thank you again :)

[BlueSavannah]

Birth Certificate for Alfred Carter has arrived.....Born 3rd March 1851, High Street, Dunstable. Parents Moses Carter (Labourer) & Ann Carter formerly Conway.

Thank you for the marriage that was found earlier on the thread as it is now confirmed it is the right one; shame its not on the Ancestry London records :(

[ElizabethHerts]

Claire, you are slowly piecing this mystery together. Hopefully, over time, you will get further and further back.

[BlueSavannah]

Thank you Elizabeth :)

Its such a shame that all the information on Moses from later census, death, and the possible conviction are highly likely to be my man but I cannot prove it.

Its nice to finally add a maiden name for Ann rather than just have her as Ann TBC lol.

[ElizabethHerts]

From the new Family Search site:

Groom's Name: Moses Carter
Groom's Birth Date:
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age:
Bride's Name: Ann Conway
Bride's Birth Date:
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age:
Marriage Date: 05 Jan 1835
Marriage Place: Hammersmith, Middlesex, England
Groom's Father's Name:
Groom's Mother's Name:
Bride's Father's Name:
Bride's Mother's Name:
Groom's Race:
Groom's Marital Status: Single
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:
Bride's Marital Status: Single
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M01461-6
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1966296
Reference Number: p 162 486

At least we know now that Conway was Ann's maiden name.

https://www.familysearch.org/search/recordDetails/show?uri=https://api.familysearch.org/records/pal:/MM9.1.r/9QB9-MB4/p4

[BlueSavannah]

Many thanks for the link.

I have a feeling that tracing Ann Conway's baptism might be harder than Moses Carter's :rolleyes:

Both of them have got about a 5 year difference in birth years with information I have on them.