What happened to Cornelius?

[Sue from Southend]

Cornelius Dibley (b 1847 Newington, Surrey) and Mary Ann baptise two children, Cornelius Mansfield 1875 and Florence Maria 1878 in Rotherhithe, Surrey. And then Cornelius snr disappears.

None of the family are apparent in 1881.

Mary Ann "remarries" Richard Wells by 1891 http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1891&indiv=try&h=7040934 (no marriage to either Cornelius or Richard found) and the Dibley children are with them but I can't find a death or any other sign of Cornelius. I suspect he's using another name but does anyone else fancy a look before I give up?

There are several Ancestry trees stuck at the same point but you lot are so good I thought I had to give you chance:d:d

[Merry]

I have a vanishing Cornelius on my tree, though I did find him eventually calling himself Eric! lol

[Sue from Southend]

I don't think I've come across an Eric Dibley yet ... but I'll keep an open mind Merry!

[Merry]

lol

two children

and Elizabeth?

[Sue from Southend]

According to one of the Ancestry trees she was born a Mansfield. I've just checked and there she is, with another sister, Mary Ann Dibley b 1870 baptised as daughters of Cornelius and Mary Ann Mansfield. http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1558&iid=31280_197635-00143&fn=Elizabeth&ln=Mansfield&st=d&ssrc=&pid=3912481
I don't know why I didn't check before - well I do really - a lot of the Dibley trees are pure fairytales especially earlier on:rolleyes: But that's no defence really...

[Merry]

When Mary Ann married 4 Aug 1889 she said her father was dec'd. (she was the first to marry)

[Merry]

Sorry, I hadbn't read pst 5 when I posted 6.

Marriages Dec 1884
Mansfield Mary Ann St Olave 1d 529
Wells Richard St Olave 1d 529

?????????????????

[ElizabethHerts]

Here are the birth registrations, Sue:

Civil Registration event: Birth
Name: DIBLEY, Cornelius Mansfield
Registration District: St. Olave Southwark
County: London
Year of Registration: 1875
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Mother's Maiden Name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume No: 1D
Page No: 300

Civil Registration event: Birth
Name: DIBLEY, Florence Mansfield
Registration District: St. Olave Southwark
County: London
Year of Registration: 1877
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Mother's Maiden Name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume No: 1D
Page No: 329

You probably have got them already.

But note that Florence is Florence Mansfield and not Florence Maria.

[ElizabethHerts]

Cornelius junior died in service of his country.

http://www.border-regiment-forum.com/wiki/index.php?title=Cornelius_Mansfield_Dibley,_3905_P rivate

[Sue from Southend]

Merry - thankyou for the marriage to Richard Wells. It looks as though she never married Cornelius. The records for St Olave 1884 on Ancestry are almost non existent, a total of 9 marriages I think which is most unhelpful.

Elizabeth - I got the children's names from the Ancestry LMA Baptisms. I do have Cornelius jnr death in 1916 - one of the Ancestry trees has that as Cornelius snr's death.....

[Sue from Southend]

I've found Mary Ann in 1881 http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&rank=1&gsfn=henry&gsln=dibley&f1=London&rg_81004011__date=1847&rs_81004011__date=2&prox=1&db=uki1881&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=UKICEN&fh=49&h=20567783&recoff=

Class: RG11; Piece: 575; Folio: 4; Page: 1;

Cornelius jnr transcribed as John...and 2 Mansfield children, Richard and William transcribed as Makepiece!

No Cornelius snr though.

[ElizabethHerts]

So she had 6 children?

[Merry]

lol well done!

Do you think this is Cornelius and this is the reason he diidn't marry Mary Ann?

Marriages Sep 1862
Brooks Matilda Poplar 1c 1198
Harris Harriet Ann Poplar 1c 1198
Mansfield Cornelius Poplar 1c 1198
Plaistowe William George Poplar 1c 1198

Perhaps a bit early, but those boys were old in 1871. Perhaps Mary Ann was Mansfield at birth and those two are hers and not Cornelius's?

[ElizabethHerts]

Oooh, the plot thickens!

[Merry]

Hmmm...she says she is a widow: (edit, no she didn't - married!!)

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7619&iid=LNDRG10_618_620-0675&fn=William&ln=Mansfield&st=r&ssrc=&pid=5396599

[Sue from Southend]

I've taken a closer look at one of those Ancestry trees. There is a long note attached to Mary Ann -
"On the birth certificate of her son Cornelius born in 1875 her details were given as "Mary Ann Dibley late Mansfield formerly Mead" As Cornelius' middle name was Mansfield I assumed that Mansfield was her maiden name and Mead a former married or defacto name. There is no record of a marriage with Cornelius Dibley b 1846 so perhaps she was his common law wife. She had 4 Dibley children between 1873 when my great grandmother Elizabeth was born in 1873 and the 1881 census when Cornelius snr has disappeared. A Cornelius Dibley died in 1908 and was not listed as deceased on his daughter's marriage certificate in 1892 so it is likely that he never married Mary Mansfield. She had two older sons b 1864 &1866 who were Mansfields. By the census of 1891 she was listed as Mary Wells, wife of Richard. Mary Ann Mansfield married Richard Wells in 1884. In that census the Dibley children were living with her so it is the same woman. If her maiden name was Mansfield then all her children were born out of wedlock. If she married a Mansfield why would she have given Cornelius Mansfield as a middle name? Also there appears to be no Mead Mansfield marriage."

Followed by-
"Since writing the above I have discovered that Mary Ann was born a Mead in 1839, the daughter of William Mead. She married Robert Henry Mansfield in 1863 and had two sons by him, William b 1862 and Richard b 1864. On the parish marriage record her name is given as M-A Griffiths, a widow, although there is no record of a Mead Griffiths marriage. By 1870 she has had her first child by Cornelius Dibley, Mary Ann. This Mary Ann and her sister Elizabeth were baptized on 30 March 1873 but as Mansfields not Dibleys although the father's first name is given as Cornelius so these are Dibley children not Mansfields. Mary Ann certainly had a chequered relationship history with at least two common law and two legitmate marriages"

I think I can agree with the tree owner about a chequered relationship history!

However she/he has Cornelius snr going to the USA citing a Naturalization of a Cornelius Diffley but I've found him on later censuses on Family Search and he's Irish... So I still don't know what happened to him.

[ElizabethHerts]

We don't know which one she married, but bear this in mind:

Civil Registration event: Marriage
Name: MEAD, Mary Ann
Registration District: St. Martin
County: London
Year of Registration: 1860
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Spouse's last name: Not available before 1912
Volume No: 1A
Page No: 642
MarriageFinder: Mary Ann Mead married one of the following people
GRIFFITHS, David Thomas
NEALE, John Joseph
HOWELL, Mary

[ElizabethHerts]

Civil Registration event: Death
Name: GRIFFITHS, David Thomas
Registration District: St. Olave Southwark
County: London
Year of Registration: 1861
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Volume No: 1D
Page No: 36

[Merry]

On the first census you found the two Mansfield boys Richard was Richard H. I thought this was him:

Births Mar 1865 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MANSFIELD Richard Henry Newington 1d 233


but the bap for him says b Jan 1865 not 1864 and dad is Henry not Robert Henry. I can't see the 1863 marriage on FreeBMD.

[Merry]

Oh here it is, I looked for Henry!

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1623&iid=31280_197793-00091&fn=Robert&ln=Mansfield&st=d&ssrc=&pid=3280397

[Merry]

So, between us we have Mead to Griffiths
death of Griffiths
Griffiths to Mansfield
Two children
have we got the death of mansfield yet?
No marriage to Cornelius
Various children (sorry, lost count!)
Mansfield to Wells
No more children

but is it really Cornelius who you are interested in, Sue?

[ElizabethHerts]

Civil Registration event: Marriage
Name: GRIFFITHS, Mary Ann
Registration District: Bermondsey
County: London
Year of Registration: 1862
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Spouse's last name: Not available before 1912
Volume No: 1D
Page No: 101
MarriageFinder: Mary Ann Griffiths married one of the following people
MANSFIELD, Robert
COURTIN, Erembert
WILCOXON, Harriett

[Sue from Southend]

The other Mansfield boy, William was a William Aaron baptised in Bermondsey from memory. Also from memory both baptisms gave the father as Henry Robert, although he gave Robert for the marriage. On one of those baptisms I believe he was a soldier, but on the other a labourer...

Merry. yes it's Cornelius Dibley I'm most interested in. He's not in my direct line, I'm trying "kill off" some of twigs and he's one that's intriguing me. He should be easy with that name!

[Merry]

I have one like that called Moses Attwood. When they have an unusual first name it seems so wrong that they can vanish!