Daniel Newman - missing birth and 1901 census

[Lindsay]

Can anyone spot a birth for Daniel Newman? He says he was born in Bethnal Green in 1880 (1911 census), 1882 (1891 census) or 1883 (marriage) but I can't find a matching birth reg or baptism. He is also missing from the 1901 census though I have his parents in Bethnal Green.

The story is his mother Emma Peel married, had a son (might or might not be Daniel), was widowed, then married James Newman but I haven't found any marriage for her at all. I have 5 (!) of her children's birth certs now and on all she is Emma Newman formerly Peel.

(I've posted before to try to find Emma's marriage(s) with no luck so I thought I'd try looking for Daniel in case he can give me a lead :confused:).

[Merry]

Do you have the birth cert for son, James Newman, who is also aged 9 in 1891?

[Merry]

Would you agree James senr is still single in 1881 and likely to be the one who is a carman and living with his parents James and Louisa in the parish of St Matthew?

[Lindsay]

Yes, that's James senr in 1881 with his mum and dad.

I don't have a birth cert for James jnr - there were several possibles, and as I'd already got several of the other children's certs I decided I couldn't justify it. Unfortunately there's no baptism as far as I can see. If James and Daniel's ages are right they're presumably twins (both 9 in 1891).

[WendyPusey]

There are about 9 baptisms on Ancestry for James and Emma Newman children starting with James William in 1880 Bethnall Green.

[Lindsay]

Thanks for looking, Wendy.

Unfortunately there is a parallel family (James Newman and Emma Witchell) in Bethnal Green at the same time - probably related, as my James and Emma lived briefly at the same address as Emma Witchell's family had lived before she married (435 Bethnal Green Road).

Also it seems my James and Emma didn't baptise most of their their children - I have 3 baptsims but 9 children (there should be some more - they had about 11, all boys except for 1).

[Merry]

So, if they are both 9 (and obviously that might not be correct!) they are either twins .....or one is Emma's child and the other is a child of James and another woman. (or there is less than 12 months between them :rolleyes:)

Which is the earliest child you have proof belonged to both of them?

[Lindsay]

The only info I have is the 1891 census, Merry. My guess would be James is older, just because that's his dad's name. The earliest definite I have is Charles, born 18 Nov 1884.

But if James was Daniel's father, Daniel should be registered under Newman, if Emma wasn't married he should be under Peel, and if she'd married someone else there should be a marriage for her! I don't know if it's significant or not, but Daniel is not a name that's cropped up anywhere else in this line.

Daniel put James Newman (senr) as his father on his marriage record, and in 1911 he's living at the same address as Emma (different household).

I'm beginning to think I should try to send for James's birth cert - the most likely looks like Q1 1883.

This family are costing me a fortune!

[Merry]

This isn't helpful, but are there actually two parallel families? The bap of James William Newman mentioned by Mary earlier in this thread took place before Emma Peel was with JN and before Emma Witchell married her James (1882).

I have not looked for Emma Witchell and her husband as I guess you already know which one she is, but this "other" family are at 143 Old Montague St in 1881 and that is the addy on the 1880 bap of their son, James Willam.

[Lindsay]

Aagh! Looks like 3 parallel families!

I'm sure as I can be about James and Emma Witchell's marriage in 1882 - his job is 'machine ruler' (whatever that is) and his father is John Newman. In 1881 he's living in Thyssen Street with his parents (same address as he gives on his marriage).

In 1881 my James Newman is living with his parents; I'm sure this is the right chap - he's a carman (as he is on all his children's birth certs and his death cert) and his grandmother is with them (long family story about why she wasn't with his grandfather, which fits - also granny's name was given to my James and Emma's only daughter). Emma Peel is living with her father and stepmother.

Meanwhile also in 1881 the third James and Emma Newman are living in Old Montague Street. He's a case maker.

Three James and Emma Newmans, all about the same age, all in Bethnal Green area. They don't make it easy, do they?