View Full Version : Naval question(s).
Olde Crone
02-10-09, 12:03
I know naff all about the Navy so perhaps someone could kindly guide me here!
I am looking for a naval service record, don't know if it was Royal Navy or Marines, but I do know the man concerned "got some medals". Did the Marine service award medals?
The story is, the man's young son found these medals in a drawer and swapped them with a mate for a dinky car. When his father found out, he went berserk and eventually had to "buy back" the medals from the other child's father.
I can't imagine he would have felt so strongly about ordinary service medals?
I've had a little searchlet of TNA Naval Records but I don't seem to be getting anywhere. Service would have been between 1911-1933, most probably WW1 but that is a pure guess on my part, except certainly no EARLIER than 1911 - I have him on census.
Any tips gratefully received!
OC
kiterunner
02-10-09, 12:10
The Royal Marines' service records 1842 - 1925 are on TNA:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/royalmarines.asp?WT.hp=Royal Marines Service Records
I think they got WW1 medals but will have to check.
I don't think the merchant navy got medals for WW1 but I know they did for WW2.
kiterunner
02-10-09, 12:11
Oh, and the Royal Navy service records for the same period are on there too:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/browse-refine.asp?CatID=15&searchType=browserefine&pagenumber=1&query=*&queryType=1
kiterunner
02-10-09, 12:30
Do you want to give us the name you're looking for, OC, so we can help search? Or you could PM it to me if you don't want to post it up.
I can't imagine he would have felt so strongly about ordinary service medals?
I don't know about that really......Imgine if he wore them for parades and the like and then suddenly they were gone.
Joan of Archives
02-10-09, 12:51
My dad only got ordinary service medals but I would be very upset if someone swapped them for something else :rolleyes:
Also, he might have just wanted to get the message through to his son that your don't swap other peoples belongings without asking.
Olde Crone
02-10-09, 13:21
Well, you did ask.....his name was William Alfred Brown(e) or maybe Alfred William Brown(e).
Date of birth SUPPOSEDLY 12 March 1900 but this is open to a lot of doubt and if I have found the correct man on census was more likely 1901, Chelsea - maybe just London. A possible Plymouth connection.
He apparently didn't do service in WW2 and was certainly working in a munitions factory in the 40s. He died 1957.
(Off topic a bit....I am having great difficulty in extracting information about him from his daughter, who maintains she doesn't know anything about her father's early life. She does, she just doesn't know she does, lol.
I was wittering about how it was a shame he didn't do service in WW2, as she could apply for his army records etc.
We then moved on to discuss other things about him and she told me a tale about how he and a friend were rowing across a large river during WW2 when they were strafed by a german plane and only escaped by rowing under a bridge. I said "ooh, how did a man born and bred in London learn to row?" and she said "Oh, when he was in the Navy".
With immense restraint I pointed out that she hadn't told me he was in the Navy and the fact that he WAS, opens up an entirely new line of research! She said she hadn't thought it was important!)
OC
kiterunner
02-10-09, 14:05
How about this one?
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=7151782&queryType=1&resultcount=12
Olde Crone
02-10-09, 19:15
Thankyou Kate, unfortunately I'm getting the "problem with an image" page! I'll try again in a minute.
Thankyou though.
OC
samesizedfeet
02-10-09, 19:45
I don't know about that really......Imgine if he wore them for parades and the like and then suddenly they were gone.
I now have a vision of someone marching with a dinky toy dangling from his jacket instead of his medals
Olde Crone
02-10-09, 20:14
*Wonders if it would be acceptable to use thumbscrews and an interrogation cell in the pursuit of genealogical information*
She has now remembered that he was a Submariner and the two medals were for bravery. There was some sort of fire on the submarine and he rescued two shipmates despite being severely burned himself.
She has also remembered him saying there were twins in his family and that would account for the two children being born in 1898 - I'm just off to investigate deaths.
OC
Good luck with this one OC, it looks as though you might eventually find out a lot more if you can just be patient and wait for her brain to sift through the information she has locked away in there!....and NO, thumbscrews are not acceptable - just yet. :(
Olde Crone
03-10-09, 12:54
OH NO!!!
I have just managed to open the link Kate gave upthread......I have been following completely the wrong man!!!!!
Kate's one was born 12th March....that was the date his daughter gave me as his birthday, so it has to be him.
Forget Pauline and her exotic life, wrong family totally. A lesson in making the facts fit the story here, blush blush.
I am just about to download his record, but before I do, it is asking me to select a format...which one should I choose please?
(Thankyou again, Kate, for finding him...how on earth did you do this?)
OC
So, this is yours?
Image details
Description Name Brown, William Alfred
Official Number: J33820
Place of Birth: Edmonton, London
Date 12 March 1899
Catalogue reference ADM 188/714
Dept Records of the Admiralty, Naval Forces, Royal Marines, Coastguard, and related bodies
Series Admiralty: Royal Navy Registers of Seamen's Services
Piece 33501-34000
Image contains 1 document of many for this catalogue reference
From previous experience of a few of these records for OHs family, every single one of them (we only got four, but even so, 100% of those) had a year of birth on the service record one year before their actual year of birth (or was it that the indexed year was wrong?). I don't know if we worked out why that was, but in any case it may well be that his actual date of birth was 12th March 1900 not 1899.
lol!!:
1)
Name: William Alfred Brown
Year of Registration: 1900
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Edmonton
County: Essex, Hertfordshire, Middlesex
Volume: 3a
Page: 409
2)
Name: Alfred William Brown
Year of Registration: 1899
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Edmonton
County: Essex, Hertfordshire, Middlesex
Volume: 3a
Page: 431
Have you purchased the service record? If so, is there a written dob on it?
From the 1901 census:
I think William Alfred Brown b in 1900 was actually born in Tottenham which is in Edmonton district, but would he then say he was born in Edmonton?. His parents are William A and Mary B both born around London (not France! lol)
I'm struggling to be sure of the right candidate for Alfred W b 1899.
In 1911 there are no Wm or Alfred Browns who actually give Edmonton as their place of birth who are the right age!
Don't suppose there is any next of kin recorded on the service papers?
I remember on one of the other threads :rolleyes: you said something about someone coming from or living in Plymouth.
In 1911 the William Alfred Brown who was born in Tottenham had moved with his family (William Arthur and Mary Beatrice and siblings Edward, Frederick, Beatrice and Dorothy) to St Thomas District in Devon (not sure that is very near Plymouth though?!!).
kiterunner
03-10-09, 14:25
I am just about to download his record, but before I do, it is asking me to select a format...which one should I choose please?
What formats is it offering you?
(Thankyou again, Kate, for finding him...how on earth did you do this?)
I just went through searching for Alfred William Browne, William Alfred Browne, Alfred William Brown, and so on, till I found one born on the 12th March. I do hope he's the right one!
What formats is it offering you?
I thought it only offered a pdf file?
Olde Crone
03-10-09, 14:39
Had to nip out to buy some computer paper, lol!
Still haven't downloaded yet as I want to get this right first time.
Merry, I think you are right. I found William in 1901 with parents John and Elizabeth, he born Edmonton 1899. But I could only find a birth in June 1900!(William Alfred)
For this to be correct, they would have had to have lied to the Registrar or declared a late registration, as there was a daughter Lilly aged 8 months in 1901. So I think the one you have found, with the Plymouth connection, is more likely to be right.
OC
What about William A born Tottenham? I think the birth reg you found is his.
I suppose you/they could get the birth cert with the dob as a checking point?
Olde Crone
03-10-09, 14:58
I'm hoping his parents will be shown on his record......I'm going in, hold my ankles someone!
OC
Rosie Knees
03-10-09, 15:56
... must be good reading!
Olde Crone
03-10-09, 16:13
Oh, how disappointing!
I can't read a lot of it and can't interpret the rest, lol.
Still don't know if it's the right man as there is no info about next of kin. I THINK it is probably him. He enlisted at Plymouth as a boy sailor in 1915. Signed on for 12 years on his 18th birthday.
He got a G1 badge - what is that, please? - and it was taken away from him, lol.
He also got a 2B badge which he seems to have hung onto.
Now, there is a scrawly bit of writing in the column for remarks which I THINK says
"Declined to revoyage abroad x x x Sc895/29 Pars? of cer??? to prison (gulp!)
then underneath that
commission
with a funny little sign over it.
He left the service 1929. In 1933 he appealed to the Soldiers and Sailors Help Society.
End of record!
Nothing about medals for bravery, or injuries etc. Hmmmmmm.
OC
kiterunner
03-10-09, 16:42
Looking at the Great War Forum, it looks as though the badges would have been for good conduct.
Olde Crone
03-10-09, 18:48
Mulling this over, the only other Naval Record I have seen was MUCH fuller than this one and ran to about six or seven pages, including medical notes, next of kin, addresses etc.
I'm wondering if there might be more information elsewhere.
Merry, did yours have more than one page (plus TNA cover)?
OC
No, all were either one or two pages, but they were all from about 30 years before the one you have.
Margaret in Burton
04-10-09, 10:15
Mulling this over, the only other Naval Record I have seen was MUCH fuller than this one and ran to about six or seven pages, including medical notes, next of kin, addresses etc.
I'm wondering if there might be more information elsewhere.
Merry, did yours have more than one page (plus TNA cover)?
OC
OC
Why don't you ask AnnSwabey to check next time she goes to Kew?
Olde Crone
04-10-09, 12:46
Margaret
Great minds think alike! I emailed her this morning to ask if she could point me in the right direction.
I am, with J's permission, going to send off for the two most likely birth certs with the checking point that the birth date MUST be 12th March - year irrelevant, lol.
(J wanted to do this herself but is talking about writing to St Catherine's House!).
I think I have tentatively established that the "Warspite" was a submarine. WAB was aboard this in 22/23.
Googling for the "Cormorant, Heligoland" brings up lots of birdwatching sites and erm....some adult stuff.
OC
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