Arthur Race again

[kiterunner]

Some time ago, I was trying to work out whether these people on the 1911 census were really who they said they were:

27 Russell Square, Brighton, Sussex
Arthur Race Head 55 M 28 yrs Dealer in Pictures London Rotherhithe
Marion Race Wife 49 M 28 yrs no children Boarding House Keeper Birmingham Warks


There was what looked likely to be their marriage on FreeBMD - Arthur Race and Mary Laurence Dec 1883 Hackney, and a Mary Ann Laurence born Birmingham who seemed to fit the bill. But now the LMA records are online, I've found that they didn't marry each other - that Arthur Race married Jane Canning.

So, can we find anything to confirm this couple's existence?

[Joan of Archives]

Do you have them on any earlier census at all?

Also I am guessing but is she normally Marion or sometime Maryann or Mary Ann? :rolleyes:

[kiterunner]

I haven't managed to find them under the name Race on any other census. If they're the people I suspect they might be then her name would be Mary Ann Marrion.

[Joan of Archives]

What about this one?

Try Arthur RICE to Louisa Marion Warde
Marriage 17 Aug 1878
Parish: Saint Matthew, West Kensington
County: Middlesex

Worth a try? His father was Samuel on the marriage cert. :)

[kiterunner]

I think I've found that couple in 1881, Joan, and although she does call herself Marion, her birthplace is Chesham Bucks and his is Norfolk.

[Joan of Archives]

I can't find either of them with their parents in 1871 anyway lol! :d

[Merry]

Oh cripes - erm.....if I said O. Bristow........

[kiterunner]

How did you guess, Merry?

[Merry]

I didn't exactly.

I looked up Mary Ann M born Birmingham on FreeBMD and then looked for a marriage of the only match, who didn't ring a bell particularly, but certainly did when I saw who the spouse was! lol

Where is he in 1901?

[kiterunner]

In 1901 they are at 25 Haverstock Hill, Hampstead, London
Frederick Bristow Head M 45 Waterproof Goods Mfr London Bermondsey
Marrion Bristow Wife M 42 Birmingham Aston
Nellie Field S-in-law U 23 Assistant in Fancy Embroidery London Kensington

The 1902 street directory lists Fred Bristow at that address. The 1915 directory lists a William Henry Starmes there. I haven't actually paid up to view the address on the 1911 census though I suppose I could. I can't find a London directory for around 1911 to check at the moment.

Kelly's Directory for Sussex 1909 has nothing for no 27 Russell Square, then in 1911 it lists Rice, Arthur, apartments, and the 1915 directory has nothing for the address.

To save you checking, Nellie Field is married by 1911 and they aren't with her.

[Joan of Archives]

Er so why have I been looking for Arthur then? lol :d:rolleyes:

[Merry]

So it wasn't just a moment of madness on the census form then!

I see he died back in Islington with his real name. Very odd really. How did you come to look at this Race couple?

[Joan of Archives]

And she was Marrion Field? :rolleyes:

[Merry]

Er so why have I been looking for Arthur then? lol :d:rolleyes:

pmsl!!! To keep you busy?! :p

[Joan of Archives]

*Tuts* I have plenty to keep me busy thank you lol! :d

[kiterunner]

The other people with the Races in 1911 are Elizabeth Mary Bristow (Owen / Fred's mother, my 2xg-grandmother) and her grandchildren Ruby Marion Bristow and Reginald Hugh Bristow (no doubt you recognise that name!) Those 3 are listed as boarders rather than relatives, but the Races' details match my missing Bristow couple so closely that I suspect it's them under a false name. If I knew for sure that the Races existed then I would know to keep looking for Owen and Marion, that's why I was trying to find Arthur Race anywhere else, Joan.

[Joan of Archives]

Hold on a minute! Who is Owen? So are we looking for an Arthur, a Frederick or an Owen? Let alone the surname ?? :eek:

[kiterunner]

And she was Marrion Field? :rolleyes:
Mary Ann Marrion Field Cohen. I only found out the M stood for Marrion when I looked at their marriage cert in the LMA records! Until then I thought she called herself Marion because of her name being Mary Ann.

[Joan of Archives]

So this one has nothing to do with him so we can discount them?

Owen Ferrier Beasant Bristow
Age: 27
Born approx abt 1855
Spouse Mary Ann Marrian Field Cohen
Spouse Age 24
Married 23 Dec 1882
Saint Luke, West Holloway
Middlesex
Islington
Father Name: John Bristow
Spouse Father Name: William Cohen

[kiterunner]

Hold on a minute! Who is Owen? So are we looking for an Arthur, a Frederick or an Owen? Let alone the surname ?? :eek:

Sorry, Joan, his real name was Owen Ferrier Besant Bristow, but he calls himself Fred or Frederick on most censuses.

[Merry]

So, if we concentrate on Arthur Race being someone else, we have these conclusions:

No birth for Arthur.

No marriage at the right time to someone called Marion/Mary/Mary Ann etc except for the one eliminated by the LMA records.

No sightings in 1861, 71, 81, 91, 1901 or 1911.

No death up to the end of FreeBMD for either of them.

[Joan of Archives]

I'm not sure what you want finding? They definitely were married. Have you got them on the 1891 census?
:confused:

[kiterunner]

Oh good, thanks, Merry. It does look fishy, then, doesn't it?!

[Merry]

Kite wants to make sure the 1911 Race couple are her Bristows, as if they are not, the she needs to find Owen and Marion Bristow somewhere else. :)

[Joan of Archives]

So this one has nothing to do with him so we can discount them?

Owen Ferrier Beasant Bristow
Age: 27
Born approx abt 1855
Spouse Mary Ann Marrian Field Cohen
Spouse Age 24
Married 23 Dec 1882
Saint Luke, West Holloway
Middlesex
Islington
Father Name: John Bristow
Spouse Father Name: William Cohen

So this definitely was their marriage but you are saying that they then changed their names?

[kiterunner]

I'm not sure what you want finding? They definitely were married. Have you got them on the 1891 census?
:confused:

Joan, I've got Owen / Fred on all the censuses except the 1911; I'm just trying to find out whether Arthur Race and Marion on the 1911 are really Owen Bristow and his wife, or if Owen's wife ran off with an Arthur Race, or if the Races are a different couple entirely.

[kiterunner]

So this definitely was their marriage but you are saying that they then changed their names?

Yes, that is definitely their marriage. I don't think they officially changed their names because their deaths are registered under their original names but I suspect they used a false name for a few years, though I don't know why? Maybe they owed some money?

[Joan of Archives]

Have you got their death certificates? Is it possible that Frederick was the name Owen was known by?

[kiterunner]

I haven't got their death certs yet, Joan, no. I'm sure he was known as Fred or Frederick but I'm just trying to find out if he was Arthur Race or not.

[Joan of Archives]

Have you had a look to see if there was any mention of a bankruptcy for him?

[Joan of Archives]

Have you got the original image for 1911 ? Just wondered if it was mistranscribed or anything & is a complete red herring lol!

[kiterunner]

Oh yes, I've got the original image, and he has definitely written Arthur Race on it. Also he is listed as Arthur Rice in the Sussex Kelly's Directory.

Good idea about the bankruptcy check, I'll see if I can find anything. Although if he had been declared bankrupt I suppose he wouldn't have needed a false name? But he could have been made bankrupt afterwards?

[Joan of Archives]

I was just thinking it's possible he is Owen but mistranscribed elsewhere. Would there be a reason for them to move to Sussex? It will be easier(and cheaper!) to search when 1911 goes on subs on FMP as I think at the moment it is not easy to find anyone on there lol!

[kiterunner]

That's what I was thinking too, Joan. My 2xg-grandmother Elizabeth died later in 1911 at 27 Russell Square and her death was registered by one of her other sons, but I suppose I'd like to know whether to think of her dying in the bosom of her family or in an impersonal boarding house!

Edit many years later - I don't want to bump this thread up, but want to add in the following info in case anyone else is interested:
1912 and 1913 electoral rolls have Arthur Race at 27 Russell Square, Brighton. He has gone by 1915.
1921 electoral roll has a George and Mary Bristow at 42 Hungerford Road, Islington, then in 1922 they are replaced by Frederick and Marian Bristow. On the 1925 e roll Frederick and Marian Bristow are at 393 New North Road, Islington.