John Arthur Dowsett

[Muggins in Sussex]

Name - "official" name John Dowsett and what they were known as John Arthur Dowsett

Date and place of birth
1st Jan 1895 – Patcham, Sussex

Names of parents –
John Dowsett and Ann ?

Details of each of his or her marriages - if any - and any divorces
Marriage to Dorothy Scrutton 26 Aug 1916, Epping Parish Church, by licence
1928-He petitions for divorce against Dorothy – cross-allegations of adultery – it all eventually fizzles out in 1929

Occupation(s) - if any
Car Mechanic, Soldier, working in armament factory in Liverpool, may have been in business in Malta with HW Wicks

Military service – not sure
Addresses where they lived
- and please list which censuses you have or haven't found him/her on, if applicable.

1901 – Patcham – aged 6
1911 – not sure – may be houseboy in mental institution

Date, place and cause of death – not sure


Date and place of burial / cremation.
Details of will / administration of their estate - if applicable
Memorial inscription - if any

[kiterunner]

There is a medal index card for a John A Dowsett gunner no 21971 in the Royal Horse Artillery, which may or may not be him. There don't seem to be any surviving records though, unless he stayed in the army after WW1 in which case his records would still be with the MOD.

His birth certificate should give you his mother's maiden name.

[Margaret in Burton]

I can't see a likely death in this country

[Muggins in Sussex]

Thanks Kite :) - on his marriage cert in 1916 he is a Soldier, stationed at Victoria Barracks, Windsor - so I guess that would fit.

I know I should have done, but I have never applied for thr birth cert :o - but I will do now.
I always seem to be looking forwards rather than backwards, if that makes sense! :d:d:d

[Merry]

Marriage to Dorothy Scrutton 26 Aug 1929

Should that be 1916?

[Merry]

He doesn't actaully have a middle name on his birth reg:

Births Mar 1895
Dowsett John Steyning 2b 282

[Merry]

Muggins (or anyone else who has followed Muggins threads more closely than I have) - does the name Florence Hilda Baxter mean anything?

[KiwiChris]

I don't remember what we do or don't have already....

There is J Arthur Dowsett b c1895 sailed Dover to Curacao on the Styvesant on 23 April 1927, he is an engineer.

[Tilly Mint]

I don't remember what we do or don't have already....

There is J Arthur Dowsett b c1895 sailed Dover to Curacao on the Styvesant on 23 April 1927, he is an engineer.


She has this one Chris.....

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:r--nRfw2iisJ:genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/archive/index.php%3Ft-5884.html+Curacao+%22J+Arthur+Dowsett%22&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&source=www.google.co.uk

Merry, i've looked at the surnames and done a search on here, nothings showing up.

[Merry]

Merry, i've looked at the surnames and done a search on here, nothings showing up.


It's 99.9% likely to be a complete red-herring. I can't really post the details - It's a death notice in The Times - as two of the people mentioned may well still be alive. I have tried to sort out how they fit together - mainly for the purposes of eliminating them altogether, but am having real trouble doing so.

For those of you who have access to The Times and also have time on your hands! lol ....Search term:

Wicks and Dowsett

and look at the death notice for 29th Aug 1977 for Florence Hilda Baxter. The only bit I can see that ties in, is a marriage for female Thompson to male Wicks, but whilst male Wicks has parents, I can't see that his father (who married in 1936) was ever born.

I'm also thinking maybe at least one of these women has been married more than once making the task even more difficult, esp when it's probably a completely unconnected family. It's just seeing those two surnames in the same sentence made alarm bells ring, especially with that combination of forenames!

Sorry if I'm been overly cryptic.

The person recorded as daughter of the dec'd was living in the dec'd's home for the next few phone directiories.

[Margaret in Burton]

Flippin' 'eck it's a bit late to be cryptic. I'll look tomorrow. lol:D:D

[Merry]

And I've doubled my wine ration and had two glasses!

[kiterunner]

I can't find the Thompson / Wicks marriage that you're talking about, so I'm giving up on that.

[Muggins in Sussex]

Merry - you are right the date of the marriage was 1916 - have changed it. I was thinking it had been a long time since I had made a mistake!

I've never heard of Florence Hilda Baxter - just out of interest, can you remember what part of the country the death was in?

I always refer to him as John Arthur, as that is what is on his marriage certificate - - so I've changed that too !:d

I'm afraid he was a bit of a shady character too, I think!

Have been putting together some of what I have -

1916 - marriage to Dorothy Scrutton

1922 -3 - Dorothy has 2 children

1927- sails to Curacao

1928 - John petitions for divorce

1929 - Divorce proceedings fizzle out and petition is dismissed

1929 (?) - Dorothy moves to France with my mother

1930 - John writes to the Home Office requesting that my mother's sister be added to the passports of HW Wicks and Caroline Wicks, but not to the passport of Dorothy.

1939 -John is working in an armaments factory in Liverpool and being watched by MI5.

1960 - John dies in Hove, that surprised me as it is where Dorothy was living (although they led separate lives)

Have just sent for his birth cert :)

[ElizabethHerts]

Florence Hilda Baxter died in Cobham, Surrey. She was a mother of a Wicks and grandmother of a Dowsett and Thompson.

Muggins, you have J A's father as John. Just for the record, he seems to use William J too:

1891 Census
DOWSETT, William J
STEYNING, Sussex
RG12 piece 824 folio 54 page 11
DOWSETT, William J Head Married M 30 1861 Coachman Maldon Essex
DOWSETT, Ann Wife Married F 31 1860 Combe Somersetshire
DOWSETT, Mary May Daughter F 2 1889 Patcham Sussex

[Muggins in Sussex]

Thanks - Elizabeth - I just wondered - in 1977 Wicks was living in Horley - I suppose not too far from Cobham

And thanks for the census reference - I have come across Combe in Somerset before - (something to do with Caroline on a passenger list, I think, giving the name of an uncle in Combe as next of kin :confused:)

[HarrysMum]

My brain is not functioning very well...lol.

If someone wants to give me a job for either of the Muggins fellows, I'm happy to search around.

[maggie_4_7]

I suppose it's possible that Florence Hilda Baxter was Ann's mother John Howsett's wife's mother.

Joan doesn't seem to have a maiden name for Ann.

Edit to say: Scrap that she'd be far to old I'm errr a bit confused already *goes for a lie down* I've only just got up!

[ElizabethHerts]

Edit to say: Scrap that she'd be far to old I'm errr a bit confused already *goes for a lie down* I've only just got up!

I feel like that too, Maggie! I have been going round in circles with this puzzle - no wonder Muggins is confused!

[Muggins in Sussex]

Join the club! :d

I haven't seen the Times article, but do the initials GD feature at all?

[Merry]

I can't find the Thompson / Wicks marriage that you're talking about, so I'm giving up on that.

Oops, I hope you didn't spend long! I had a double wine ration and so posted the wrong surname! Very sorry :o:(

The person listed as Dowsett in the death notice may have started out as a Thompson (ie possibly the married sister of the Thompson person?). There is a marriage of the right Thompson forename to Dowsett in 1967 in Kingston upon Thames, but I can't trace the Dowsett line back further than the marriage of the groom's father in 1936. I then tried to find the Thompson bride being born with mmn Baxter, but that didn't work either. Normally I would just say probably no connection to Muggins, given the time frame in particular, but with Muggins tree there are different rules! lol

[Muggins in Sussex]

Oops, I hope you didn't spend long! I had a double wine ration and so posted the wrong surname! Very sorry :o:(

The person listed as Dowsett in the death notice may have started out as a Thompson (ie possibly the married sister of the Thompson person?). There is a marriage of the right Thompson forename to Dowsett in 1967 in Kingston upon Thames, but I can't trace the Dowsett line back further than the marriage of the groom's father in 1936. I then tried to find the Thompson bride being born with mmn Baxter, but that didn't work either. Normally I would just say probably no connection to Muggins, given the time frame in particular, but with Muggins tree there are different rules! lol

LOL Merry!! :d

I have looked up that marriage, but the names mean nothing to me - but then again, I am not in touch with any Dowsetts, so I guess that means nothing :d

[Merry]

Sorry about all my cryptic posts on this thread. I have managed to eliminate the line of people called Dowsett who turned up in the Times snippet. I can't work out who the Wicks person is, but I'm thinking if the Dowsett's are not to do with your JAD then litle most likely the Wicks isn't to do with your either.

[Muggins in Sussex]

I think I'm beginning to undestand - sort of - Merry :d:confused:

Don't suppose the initials MHW, GDW or PW feature anywhere, do they?

[maggie_4_7]

Joan

Can I ask something I thought there was a Maguerite in your family somewhere or am I wrong?

[Muggins in Sussex]

There was Maggie :) She was Dorothy's first child (known as Margaret), the one whom HW snatched and took to Germany as a young girl - I met her on quite a few occasions. She was the splitting image of Caroline Ruth Wicks, whose photo I found in a file at Kew :d

[maggie_4_7]

Okay did HW think she was his biological daughter then?

[Merry]

I think I'm beginning to undestand - sort of - Merry :d:confused:

Don't suppose the initials MHW, GDW or PW feature anywhere, do they?

No, I could do you MJAW (married female, husband unknown) and for the D surname, THD (married to the dau of MJAW) and his father, TJHD who I originally thought was dodgy as he apparently wasn't born or died, but now I've found he was born in 1915 (and he has a real, existing-on-the-census father, so a red herring), just that he hasn't died!! lol

[Muggins in Sussex]

That is the big mystery, Maggie :d

He was awarded guardianship of Marguerite (b 1922) in 1928 at Liverpool Children's Court - I have no details as the records are "closed". Round about the same time, Dorothy was so worried that he was going to try to take my mother too, that she moved to France with my mother and they moved from town to town.

[maggie_4_7]

Joan

The penny has only just dropped :rolleyes:

I think it's because I always come in half way and then get confused!

:)

[Muggins in Sussex]

No, I could do you MJAW (married female, husband unknown) and for the D surname, THD (married to the dau of MJAW) and his father, TJHD who I originally thought was dodgy as he apparently wasn't born or died, but now I've found he was born in 1915 (and he has a real, existing-on-the-census father, so a red herring), just that he hasn't died!! lol

Thanks Merry - I dont recognise any of those initials - but this has set me off on a new line of enquiry, which at the moment seems incomprehensible :confused: - I'll looked at it again when I'm less tired :)

Joan

The penny has only just dropped :rolleyes:

I think it's because I always come in half way and then get confused!

:)

No worries Maggie :) -I am always confused :d:d

[Muggins in Sussex]

Merry - has the surname "English" crropped up at all in anything you have found?

Tx

[Merry]

No.....;(

[Muggins in Sussex]

Thanks Merry -:) - I have now seen the item in the Times - how strange :confused: - I has initially thought it might be connected with Derek Malcolm, but now I don't think it is.

Thanks again

[Merry]

Who is Derek Malcolm?

[Janet]

Merry, Derek Malcolm Wicks - you popped in briefly on the end of that thread:

Research > Research Questions > Who was Derek?

http://genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=2556

[Muggins in Sussex]

Sorry Merry - I meant Derek Malcom Wicks!

Thanks Janet :) - I'd forgotten about that thread :o:d

Also he pops up on this thread http://genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=10775&page=4 - post 34 when I wondered whether he was the boy in the photos of 27, The Avenue :confused:

Sorry if the two threads are getting mingled ::o

Edit - I've just re-read the post Janet found - I did write to the son again but had no reply - but I didn't send for the adoption certificate - guess I should, on the offchance.

[Merry]

Oh, thanks Janet. I made the mistake of thinking Malcolm was the surname and thought he was a cricketer, but that's Devon Malcolm!

[Janet]

You could have fooled me! :p

[Merry]

Joan, have you ever considered contacting DMWs widow? It appears (if I'm correct in what I looked up) she remarried and had one more child and is on the electoral rolls in 2003/7 (the older 192.com info - I can't access later). I suppose she would be in her eighties now though......

[Merry]

You said only one son of DMW survived, but I can't see a death for either of them. Are you sure one is dec'd? (I can only positively identify one of them (the younger one) on 192.com so am guessing it's the elder one who died?

[Muggins in Sussex]

Hi Merry - I think what I meant was that DMW had a son and that that son was still alive (so far as I can tell).

I hadn't realised then that he also had a second son! - he also still seems to be alive still.

Hope that makes sense - sorry for any confusion :o

[Merry]

Am pming you.......

[Muggins in Sussex]

Thank you to Merry :):):):):)

Going back a bit, John Dowsett's birth cert has just arrived - registered as John, (not John Arthur), father John, wife Ann Smith (:d) - I think I may have found their marriage and Banns in Camden in 1886