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Muggins in Sussex
09-07-11, 07:22
He was either my grandfather or was married to my grandfather's sister

Name - "official" name and what they were known as
Henry William Wicks, often known as H W Wicks – (Googling brings up results for both)

Date and place of birth
17th July 1893 – Poplar, London

Names of parents –
Henry Wicks & Annie E Wicks (nee Payne)

Details of each of his or her marriages - if any - and any divorces
11th Dec 1915 to Mary Suzette Syms at the Unity Church and Hall, Wood Green

27th December 1918 to Caroline Ruth Dowsett at the Presbyterian Church, Brighton

(On 8th August 1918 Caroline Ruth Dowsett married Clarence Thomas Platt at Preston Parish Church, Brighton – there is a possibility that Clarence Thomas Platt was really Henry William Wicks, and that this was some sort of insurance scam – but I now think that this is unlikely)

Occupation(s) - if any
Insurance Manager, inveterate litigator, broadcaster of pro-nazi propaganda from Berlin to England in WW2.

Military service - if any - none found

Addresses where they lived - and please list which censuses you have or haven't found him/her on, if applicable.
1901 Census – aged 7 in Walthamstow
1911 Census – Clerk for Insurance Company in Kingston
Numerous addresses including London, Liverpool, Brighton, Bournemouth, Redhill, Germany, France and Malta – also spells in HMP Wormwood Scrubs and HMP Parkhurst

Date, place and cause of death
2nd April 1979 Horley “on the way to Redhill Hospital” – coronary Thrombosis, Arteriosclerosis and Diabetes Mellitus

Date and place of burial / cremation. – not looked for
Details of will / administration of their estate - if applicable – not known
Memorial inscription - if any – not known

Margaret in Burton
09-07-11, 09:42
This is the one I have been waiting for.

HarrysMum
09-07-11, 09:54
This is the one I have been waiting for.



Me too...

Muggins in Sussex
09-07-11, 09:56
LOL Marg & Libbby

I'll try and post a photo of him ...
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o112/djangocrystal/HenryWilliamWicks-1.jpg


Edit - oooh - it worked!

maggie_4_7
09-07-11, 10:57
We looked for a baptism for him before didn't we and didn't find one but found two of his sisters Beatrice and Florence as I recall.

Merry
09-07-11, 11:04
He has quite a particular look, doesn't he?

Muggins in Sussex
09-07-11, 11:10
We looked for a baptism for him before didn't we and didn't find one but found two of his sisters Beatrice and Florence as I recall.

That's right Maggie - what a good memory you have :) -then I thought I'd found it but i'd gone wrong :(

He has quite a particular look, doesn't he?

He does, Merry - I found the book on Abe books, and I remember when it arrived and I opened it, I was astonished to see his face staring at me - there seems to be something quite haunting about it - I can't quite put my finger on it.

Merry
09-07-11, 11:13
I was just reading about the 1934 libel case against Sun Life. I either didn't know, or had, forgotten that HWW used to live in a road I used to drive down every day, to and from work, in the late 1980s!!

Might any benefit come from electoral rolls/street directories for Bournemouth?

Nell
09-07-11, 11:15
I think its the way he is staring so intently at the camera.

Merry
09-07-11, 11:16
He looks like a 1930s film star - maybe not the lead, but the supporting role!

Muggins in Sussex
09-07-11, 12:12
I was just reading about the 1934 libel case against Sun Life. I either didn't know, or had, forgotten that HWW used to live in a road I used to drive down every day, to and from work, in the late 1980s!!

Might any benefit come from electoral rolls/street directories for Bournemouth?

Hello Merry - if I knew where to find them, it would be interesting to know whether he was living with John Arthur Dowsett - I never really worked out what happened to John

I think its the way he is staring so intently at the camera.

He looks like a 1930s film star - maybe not the lead, but the supporting role!

I think the photo was taken around 1938 - the only written description I recall finding of him was by David Irving, who described him as "meek", "mild", "mouse-like", with gold rimmed-glasses ( http://www.fpp.co.uk/speeches/speech281092.html). This would have been around 1963.

Film star - LOL Merry :d:d:d - I think he aspired to be a radio star :eek:

Merry
09-07-11, 12:24
Hello Merry - if I knew where to find them, it would be interesting to know whether he was living with John Arthur Dowsett - I never really worked out what happened to John


If you would like to pm me with any info you think I might need I can easily go to Bournemouth main libary - probably Tues or Wed - and take a look.

I don't remember who J A Dowsett was? I remember Dowsett was the surname of the lady who married Wicks and the Canadian.....:confused:

Muggins in Sussex
09-07-11, 13:35
Thanks Merry :) - have PM'd you

John Arthur Dowsett is the other candidate for being my grandfather - maybe I should not mention him as we're only allowed one! - but as he is related to Wicks, maybe I can be excused :)

JAD was the brother of Caroline Ruth Dowsett, Wick's 2nd wife.

He married my grandmother Dorothy in 1916 and there were failed divorce proceedings in 1928 & 1929 between Dorothy and John.

He seems to have been very closely involved with HW

Margaret in Burton
09-07-11, 15:39
Thanks Merry :) - have PM'd you

John Arthur Dowsett is the other candidate for being my grandfather - maybe I should not mention him as we're only allowed one! - but as he is related to Wicks, maybe I can be excused :)

JAD was the brother of Caroline Ruth Dowsett, Wick's 2nd wife.

He married my grandmother Dorothy in 1916 and there were failed divorce proceedings in 1928 & 1929 between Dorothy and John.

He seems to have been very closely involved with HW

No you are allowed two. I always do mine and my OH's.

Muggins in Sussex
09-07-11, 19:08
Hi Marg - but mine would be both mine! - if that makes sense :d

And the rule seems to be "We're expecting that the number of threads which need blanks filling in will be relatively low, so we will still be allowing each person to post up 2 threads per week (one for your own grandparent and one for your partner's)"

So I don't think I can post John Arthur Dowsett as well as HW :confused:

Maybe a mod can clarify, please.

Thanks

Merry
09-07-11, 19:11
I think some of the ToG threads say step and adoptive (g)parents welcome!

So you can have one thread for whichever of them if your grandfather and the other one for your 'other' grandfather, I would have thought :)

Muggins in Sussex
09-07-11, 19:28
I think some of the ToG threads say step and adoptive (g)parents welcome!

So you can have one thread for whichever of them if your grandfather and the other one for your 'other' grandfather, I would have thought :)

Brilliant, Merry! - thanks :)

Too tired now, but I'll try to do JAD in the morning :)

PS - wish I'd realised this last week - LOL:d

Edit - I'll attempt to do it now

Margaret in Burton
09-07-11, 19:47
Go for it Joan, we all want to help you

Muggins in Sussex
09-07-11, 20:47
Thanks Marg - I have :)

I so often wish that I would come across someone else researching HW - now that his name is in a thread title here, who knows? :)

WendyPusey
09-07-11, 21:17
There are a couple of trees on Ancestry with your family in it. Not that they have much info though.

HarrysMum
10-07-11, 01:47
Muggins...I'll leave mine off for this week and you can have those spaces.

We really need to sort this for you.

Muggins in Sussex
10-07-11, 07:19
There are a couple of trees on Ancestry with your family in it. Not that they have much info though.

Thanks for looking Wendy - one of those trees has just copied the Wicks info from my tree!

Muggins...I'll leave mine off for this week and you can have those spaces.

We really need to sort this for you.

Libby - there are only two options for being my grandfather, so please post away - but thank you so much for the thought.

HarrysMum
10-07-11, 11:30
This is probably nothing, but I'm throwing it in so it's here...

http://dunhamwilcox.net/nj/newark_nj_spark_ch.htm

There is a Clarence T Platt mentioned and I can't let that go......lol

Muggins in Sussex
11-07-11, 05:58
Ooh Libby - thank you :) :)

I am trying to work out what it means in terms of dates - does it show that there was a Clarence T Platt who was a member of the congregationsometime between 1853 and 1904? :confused:

Langley Vale Sue
11-07-11, 08:45
He joined the Church on 23 February 1883, the same date as a Chas B Wagner (listed above Clarence). Don't know what the 'P' refers to after the date though. Some members have a 'C' after their name. Anyone know what this means?

Just read the whole listing and found this at the top.
P denotes Received on Profession of Faith
C denotes Received on Certificate

Merry
11-07-11, 10:25
What happened to his first wife?

Phoenix
11-07-11, 10:49
Also, what about a will? He might give some relationships in that - "to my natural daughter" etc.

Merry
11-07-11, 12:40
Joan, I'm going to the library tomorrow.

Muggins in Sussex
11-07-11, 19:11
He joined the Church on 23 February 1883, the same date as a Chas B Wagner (listed above Clarence). Don't know what the 'P' refers to after the date though. Some members have a 'C' after their name. Anyone know what this means?

Just read the whole listing and found this at the top.
P denotes Received on Profession of Faith
C denotes Received on Certificate

Thanks Sue - wonder how old you had to be to join! He was allegedly 32 when he married in 1918 - but he might have had a son of the same name

What happened to his first wife?

Hi Merry - Mary Suzette Wicks died on 28th May 1918, in Brighton - informant HWW

Also, what about a will? He might give some relationships in that - "to my natural daughter" etc.

Thanks Phoenix - good thinking! Should I contact what was his local county court?

Joan, I'm going to the library tomorrow.

Thank you Merry :):):)

Merry
12-07-11, 13:09
Results from Bournemouth Central Library.

Mate's Directory 1933 no results
Kelly's Directory 1933 no results

Mate's 1934, 1935 and 1936 and Kelly's 1934:

Wicks, Mrs and Mrs H W 27 The Avenue, Moordown

(the Kelly's 1934 also had the house name, "Crofton")

Mates and Kelly's 1937 no results

No sign of any Dowsett's with the right initials in any of those directories.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Electoral Roll for 27 The Avenue, Moordown:

Nothing in 1935 or 1932

1933
Wicks Henry William
Wicks Caroline Ruth
Dowsett Doris Marjorie (that spelling)

1934
Wicks Henry William
Wicks Caroline Ruth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The street directories tend to lag behind other records as the data was obviously collected in the months preceding their publication.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you look here:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=27+the+avenue,+bournemouth&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1012&bih=570&wrapid=tlif131047209290610&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x4873a21b050511e3:0xd59b1b4480df3c80,27+The +Ave,+Bournemouth+BH9+2&gl=uk&ei=rjccTvTYKMiKhQeXnLnPBw&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBcQ8gEwAA

and view the Street View, the grey house that appears is number 27 (with the wheelybin on the pavement outside) as the number is on the bin and on the front of the house.

I used to park in that section of the road when I worked in Lloyds Bank a couple of roads away in 1983-1986!!

Muggins in Sussex
12-07-11, 20:27
Many many thanks Merry :):):):)

I'll try and slot this all in to my time line. -

I'm getting more and more of a picture of how the Dowsetts and Wicks stuck together, and somehow Dorothy, my grandmother, was a bit of a persona non grata and side-lined.

Doris Marjorie/Margery seems to pop up everywhere -:d - she was even the informant at HW's death

Thanks again :):):):)

And thank you for the link you the photo of the house - strangely, I had to sort of steel myself to look at it - I think my aunt as a young girl must have been living there too.

I had thought that maybe John Dowsett would also be there, as at that time he was paying £6.10 a month to HW - no idea what that was all about - LOL

Tilly Mint
12-07-11, 21:59
Just googled and found this Joan..... it's in 1934...wonder who that is on the step?...if you click on the photo, it will enlarge it for you.

Compare it with Merry's link.......

http://www.23hq.com/dvilles2/photo/5380182

Merry
12-07-11, 22:31
Jacky and Joan....

I just re-Googled the address and as well as that pic there are others where the people are named. That lady seems to be recorded as Aunt Kitty Smith, but check because it might not be the same woman. (I have a migraine and am having trouble looking at stuff close up)

Joan, maybe you should contact the person who uploaded those photos?

Muggins in Sussex
13-07-11, 06:46
Ohh Jackie - thank you so much :)

I'm trying not to get too excited, but I wonder whether the boy could be Derek Malcolm Wicks (b. 26.03.1926). Does he look as though he is about 8? -He is the boy that HW & Caroline seem to have properly adopted. Where he originated, I've no idea, although Caroline was traveling back from Malta with him in 1926. ( I think HW was working in Malta at that time)

Merry - many thanks - I hope your migraine is better. - Yes the lady does seem to be Aunt Kitty http://www.23hq.com/dvilles2/photo/5394562? and http://www.23hq.com/dvilles2/photo/5342931?album_id=5332479 - no idea who she could have been.

I will as you suggest, contact the person who uploaded the photos - but not in haste! - I'll think carefully what to say

Merry
13-07-11, 06:58
Can't you say you thought some relatives of yours lived in the house in that year, but you are not sure? etc etc

I guess it could get difficult if you say the names and he/she googles......(I can always delete this post later lol)

Made me smile those photos have a lot of Smiths - great alias! am crossing everything, again, for you.....:)

Yeh, the migraine has magically vanished this morning, after having it on and off for two days, and I'm going to Ikea for the day! lol

Tilly Mint
13-07-11, 07:00
Yes, i agree with Merry on the contact. As you say Joan, have a good think about it - Good Luck ;)

Off to work now.....

Muggins in Sussex
13-07-11, 07:07
Thanks Jackie & Merry - Sounds a good approach - and glad you're better Merry :)

I have to go to work very soon, too

Any ideas on the age of the boy, anyone, please? http://www.23hq.com/dvilles2/photo/5380182 - I'm beginning to think he looks older than 8 (?)

PS I dont think that Kitty Smith is Caroline!

Merry
13-07-11, 07:58
I wish I'd written down the names of the residents of no 27 before and after Wicks now. I don't think I saw any Smiths, but can't be sure. (the photos may not be exact for date perhaps)

Langley Vale Sue
13-07-11, 09:48
Looking through the other photos posted by the same person, it appears that Kitty's husband was Rev. Alfred Smith.
http://www.23hq.com/dvilles2/photo/5332480?album_id=5332479

Although there is a photo referring to his adopted daughter Kitty, who I think is more likely to be the Kitty in the photo at number 27.
http://www.23hq.com/dvilles2/photo/5342928?album_id=5332479

Kitty married a Mr Clayton.
http://www.23hq.com/dvilles2/photo/5471554?album_id=5332479

Muggins in Sussex
13-07-11, 18:47
Ooh thanks ever so much, Sue :) - I hadn't seen those before :)

The only other reference to a vicar that I've across in all this is that in 1911, Caroline was a houseparlourmaid in the home of the Rev Gerard Mottram Hutton, in Brighton - so I don't think that can have anything to do with it.

How very strange that there should be yet another adopted child cropping up :confused:

Merry
13-07-11, 19:58
Ancestry phone books has Mrs A C Clayton at 27 The Avenue, Moordown (that's Bournemouth) in 1966 and 1967, so a very long time after the supposed 1930s photos.

Tilly Mint
13-07-11, 20:12
Looks like she died c 1968....

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:BVEdB8-7CcsJ:www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/44579/pages/5167/page.pdf+Clayton+%2227+The+Avenue,+Moordown%22&hl=en&gl=uk&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShhCgbS9ggYA6d9EFk5hZbI4EeRt2M064r-n9dalIYq0tPj-Cl-1YF3-bTdJzd6H1hebs5Kuq3GvpTSs-7vPwu1NUqvrukcttcxq1rlnrFe4Pot6UJfWtPWT_EDlKkYY7UI U_YF&sig=AHIEtbR2R2MLImRivllX5UCeHF1NP17Wqw

Muggins in Sussex
14-07-11, 07:02
Thanks Merry & Jacky :)

I'll look at the photos in more detail at the weekend when I have more time