Nellie and Gladys Billyard

[Anstey Nomad]

Gladys Heath Billyard was born at 9 Hawthorn Street, Newfoundpool in Leicester on 19 November 1905.

Her mother was my great aunt Nellie Billyard, born SQ1886 Southwell. No details of a father are given on the birth certificate. It would appear that Gladys was born at the home of her Aunt Fanny (my grandmother) and she was certainly living with my grandparents in the same area in 1911, and she came back to look after my grandmother before she died in 1930 but, according to my Dad, was sent home by my Grandad for being too flighty.

Here is Gladys in 1911, with my grandparents at 9 Alma Street, Beatrice Road, Leicester

ROWBOTHAM, JOHN HEAD MARRIED M 35 GAS FITTER CAYTHORPE LINC
ROWBOTHAM, FANNY ELIZABETH WIFE MARRIED 10 F 32 WALESBY NOTTMS
ROWBOTHAM, WILFRED JOHN SON M 5 MONTHS LEICESTER LEICESTERSHIRE
BELLYARD, GLADYS HEATH NIECE F 5 LEICESTER LEICESTERSHIRE

Here is Nellie in 1911 at Carr Foundry House, Albert Road, Retford, Notts
HAYES, WALTER HEAD MARRIED M 39 MOULDERS LABOURER AND CARETAKER NOTTS RETFORD
HAYES, ADA WIFE MARRIED 9 F 37 NOTTS RETFORD
HAYES, WALTER SON M 7 NOTTS RETFORD
HAYES, THOMAS SON M 3 NOTTS RETFORD
HAYES, HANNAH DAUGHTER F 1 NOTTS RETFORD
BILLYARD, NELLIE VISITOR SINGLE F 24 DOMESTIC WALESBY NOTTS

Walter and Ada Hayes were married in Retford in the first quarter of 1902. It would appear that Ada’s maiden name was Heath, which might give some clue as to Gladys’ parentage.

I have been unable to find Nellie or Gladys subsequently, although I know that Gladys was alive in the late 1920s.

Both my Dad and my cousin talked about an Aunt who lived at Arksey or Bentley near Doncaster, who may not have been married to the man she lived with. My cousin insists that she had a son who lost his arm in a pit accident. Neither can remember the name of this aunt, but as she is the only one of the children of Samuel Billyard and Annie (Fletcher) not accounted for, I think this must be Nellie.

There is a Billyard/Sharp marriage in Melton Mowbray in 1912 and a number of Nellie Sharps in the death index with a birth date of 1905 or thereabouts. If the one who died in Leeds in 1994 turns out to be my great aunt, I shall be very miffed indeed!

I don’t seem to be able to find a marriage for Gladys either – the one to William Swift in Southwell in 1930 doesn’t quite seem to fit for me.

I have tracked all Nellie’s siblings – even the one who went to New Zealand and changed her name, but Nellie, pregnant at 18, eludes me. The good news of course is that she takes my mind off Joseph Bodycote!

AN

[Merry]

There is a Billyard/Sharp marriage in Melton Mowbray in 1912 and a number of Nellie Sharps in the death index with a birth date of 1905 or thereabouts.

But Nellie wasn't born in 1905! :)

[Anstey Nomad]

It's been a long day Merry!

Thanks. I'll look at that again in the morning!

AN

[Merry]

Just doodling....

Children of Nellie and Arthur Sharp (obviously we don't know this is def your Nellie, but very likely...)

Ernest A Sharp 1913 Q1 Melton M
George H Sharp 1915 Q4 Basford
Kenneth Sharp 1922 Q3 Basford

Kenneth seems to have died in Doncaster district - does that help?

Name: Kenneth Sharp
Birth Date: 9 Jul 1922
Date of Registration: Feb 1984
Age at Death: 61
Registration district: Doncaster
Inferred County: Nottinghamshire, Yorkshire
Volume: 3
Page: 695

and George:

Name: George Henry Sharp
Birth Date: 5 Sep 1915
Date of Registration: Apr 1985
Age at Death: 69
Registration district: Doncaster
Inferred County: Nottinghamshire, Yorkshire
Volume: 3
Page: 494

possible for dad, Arthur:

Name: Arthur Sharp
Birth Date: 30 May 1886
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1976
Age at Death: 90
Registration district: Doncaster
Inferred County: South Yorkshire
Volume: 3
Page: 0451

No sign of Nellie in that district.

[kiterunner]

I don’t seem to be able to find a marriage for Gladys either – the one to William Swift in Southwell in 1930 doesn’t quite seem to fit for me.



Your Gladys is the only one I can see born in England early enough to marry in 1930 - there are two born later and there is a definite marriage for one of them; the other one would be too young to marry in 1930.

But there is one who arrives at Liverpool from Canada 1924 age 21 with Arthur 47, Emily 45, and Arthur 19. Arthur sr and Emily planning to go back to Canada; Gladys and Arthur jr planning to stay in England. Proposed address in the UK "Willow" Allorton Newark Notts.
It looks as though the Gladys who arrived in 1924 is the one who left for Canada in 1921 age 17 birthplace Catcliffe Yorks (I think) with an uncle called Mr W Bowman, Wellow, Notts.

So if this Gladys is a different one from yours, she could be the one who got married in 1930.

[Merry]

This is the birth of the girl who went to Canada:

Births Dec 1903
BILLYARD Gladys Rotherham 9c 743

(for some reason this reg shows as 1915 on Ancestry?)

Maybe your Gladys married under the surname Sharp or Heath?

Did you mean Nellie when you said about living with a man not her husband?

[Anstey Nomad]

Right - I think I have my Nellies and my Gladyses sorted out now. Sorry about that!

I think the Aunt near Doncaster would be Nellie, which makes those Doncaster deaths tempting and if they belong to the Melton Mowbray marriage then I'd better send for the certificate.

Perhaps Auntie Nellie was married to her partner after all, or perhaps she left him later and had another family with someone else, took his name informally and is now in the indexes as Nellie Heaven Knows What.

I suppose what surname Nellie was using may have influenced how Gladys was known.

It is unfortunate that both my Dad and my cousin took little or no interest in family stuff so one conversation with one of my two cousins, and a chance meeting with an aunt in the street in August 1960 are the only contacts I have ever had with my Dad's family.

AN

[Del 80]

Hi there, Just wondered if this is of interest to you.http://www.bobcopeland.net/all-o/i12.htm#s217 . Regards Del.

[Anstey Nomad]

Ooh thanks! Are you interested in Billyards or just passing through?

AN

[Del 80]

Hi Again, there is a slight connection with my family,and I remembered the name was on Bob Copelands excellent website.Hope it helped ,Regards Del.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Got to say An that you have the best collection of surnames - Bodycote and Billyard - a great song title or a book surely!!

[Anstey Nomad]

The sort of names that go well with 'Commissioners for Oaths' after them!

But that's a whole other thread...

AN

[Janet]

Where are Gilbert and Sullivan when we need them?

[Anstey Nomad]

Resurrecting this thread because I am going cross eyed looking for Ernest A Sharp.

I can't find a death. I've tried googling without success. He is not on the CWGC site either and I am now officially stuck!

Would anyone else like to have a crack at it?

[Phoenix]

Arthur Sharp was 90 when he died. If Ernest had those genes, he might have died post 2006.

[kiterunner]

I think we need more information, such as his full name and exact date of birth. Sorry.

[Anstey Nomad]

Sorry. All I have is what Merry offered up thread:

Ernest A Sharp 1913 Q1 Melton Mowbray

[kiterunner]

I realise that, AN, but there isn't an obvious death and there are too many Ernest Sharp(e)s and Arthur Sharp(e)s around to get anywhere really. Ernest's birth cert would give his middle name and exact date of birth, or his baptism (if he was baptised) would hopefully also give his middle name and might give dob. I was trying to find a probate entry for Arthur or his wife last night to see if it gave Ernest's full name, but I got nowhere with that. Also for Arthur's WW1 army records to see if there were details of his children, but there were too many Arthur Sharps and none that looked right.

[Anstey Nomad]

Yes, that was my problem. There doesn't seem to be an Ernest A Sharp anywhere.

I can't find Nellie either!

Sometimes I envy the people who are almost back to medieval times. Here am I nearly 30 years on and still trying to sort out my grandparents' generation!

[kiterunner]

If we could find Arthur on the Absent Voters List from the end of WW1, it should give some info about his service number etc, assuming he did serve in WW1. Basford district (where the 1915 and 1922 children's births were registered) included parts of both Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire, but I can't see the births listed in the Derbyshire Civil Registration records on FMP, so it looks likely they were in Nottinghamshire. In which case I might be able to find him in the Absent Voters' Roll at Nottinghamshire Archives, though I seem to remember certain bits are missing. Anyway, the archives aren't open today so I will have to go and look later in the week.

[Shona]

Reading through the thread, the 1930 marriage between Gladys Billyard and William Swift in 1930 in Southwell, Notts, isn't likely to be the Gladys who was born in Leicester.

As someone posted earlier, Gladys Billyard (plus her parents and a brother) is listed as arriving in the UK from Canada in 1924. The address given for where the family are due to stay is 'Willow, Allerton, Newark, Notts'.

This is the Billyard family who returned from Canada on the 1911 census:

Ollerton, Newark, Notts
Arthur Billyard, 31, colliery foreman [fireman?], Warsop Main Colliery, b Garmston, Retford
Emily Billyard, 31, wife, b Wellow, Newark
Gladys Billyard, 7, b Catcliffe, Rotherham
Arthur Billyard, 6, b Catcliffe

As Ollerton is in the Southwell registration district, the marriage of Gladys to William Swift is likely to be this Gladys.

Even if this is all know, it's a handy aide memoire for me.

[Anstey Nomad]

Absolutely right Shona. I now have it on reasonably good authority (I think) that Gladys married a man called Eric Healey and they had one son, Brian, who died about 2009. Brian never married and had no children.

It would appear that Nellie married Arthur Sharp as we figured out above, but that he died in fairly short order. So Ernest A and George H were fathered by Arthur Sharp, but Kenneth Sharp was fathered by a widower called William Brown, who Nellie finally married in the late 1940s. So, my father was right. When he was dumped on her as a boy because his mother was ill, Auntie Nellie was living 'over the brush'.

My correspondent refutes any suggestion that Gladys was illegitimate, but with an unmarried mother, no father on the certificate and a surname as her middle name, I'm reasonably confident that she was. Before Gladys married, she was known as Gladys Sharp, which explains some of my troubles in finding her.

I am now working through these 'facts' and I am already struggling to put the final pieces together.

[Anstey Nomad]

To add to my troubles, Gladys' marriage to Eric Heeley is mis-indexed. Keeping up the family tradition, they married in the June Quarter of 1935 and their only son was born in the September Quarter!

I have located Nellie's death in Don Valley in the June Quarter of 1952 at the age of 66.

I have not yet found her marriage to Mr Brown or the death of Arthur Sharp or any trace of Ernest A Sharp, who married, had two children and then died about 1966.

I'll have another look later.

[Merry]

This is probably him then:


Name: Ernest A Sharpe
Birth Date: abt 1913
Date of Registration: Jun 1967
Age at Death: 54
Registration District: Don Valley
Inferred County: Yorkshire West Riding
Volume: 2b
Page: 410

[Merry]

There's a possible marriage in 1938 to surname Hall and various possible children!!

[Merry]

I have not yet found her marriage to Mr Brown


Name: Nellie Sharp
Spouse Surname: Brown
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1948
Registration District: Don Valley
Inferred County: Doncaster
Volume Number: 2b
Page Number: 1354

Spouse William E Brown

[Merry]

It would appear that Nellie married Arthur Sharp as we figured out above, but that he died in fairly short order.

We had a possible death in 1976 for Arthur (aged 90), but could he have died in WW1?

[Anstey Nomad]

Thanks - that looks like Uncle Ernie, and you have found the same marriage as I found. I wonder what made them wait so long? They had been together over 25 years by that point. My correspondent says that William Brown was a widower, but even though he had his children with him, I wonder whether they were actually waiting for his wife to die.

Again, I am told that Arthur Sharp died at the end of WW1. She does not specify whether he died as a result of the war.

[Merry]

This is in the right place:


Deaths Dec 1918
Sharp Arthur 33 Basford 7b 611

[Margaret in Burton]

Maybe he died from the Spanish Flu epidemic.