Help with John Sherratt please - update #48

[Margaret in Burton]

I have made contact with someone on GR who is researching the same family as me. He has now joined us here. Welcome Geoff Sherratt.

We have John Sherratt born c 1870 in Abbots Bromley, Staffordshire to John and Ann nee Richardson. He is with his parents up and including the 1891.
Mum dies in 1892 and dad is alone in 1901 and 1911.
Dad fills in the 1911 children bit then crossed out. Says 5 children 1 dead.

Geoff's research has the following:

1) Alice Sherratt (1869 - 1926) m Walter Russell, 2 sons
2) John Sherratt (baptised 18 Jun 1871)
3) Annie Sherratt (c1873 - 1906) m Aaron Toplis, 2 sons
4) Frederick Sherratt (1875 - 1961) m Effeness Johnson, 1 son
5) Martha Sherratt (1876 - 1938) m Henry Howes, 2 sons, 1 daughter

As Annie died in 1906 so probably she is the one dead. Where is John in 1901 and 1911?

[Merry]

1901:

RG13; Piece: 2636; Folio: 119; Page: 10

[Merry]

1911

rg14pn16797 rg78pn1042 rd365 sd4 ed10 sn160

:d

[Merry]

Why do these :D sometimes come out like these :d when I don't want one of these :d ??

[Margaret in Burton]

1901:

RG13; Piece: 2636; Folio: 119; Page: 10

1911

rg14pn16797 rg78pn1042 rd365 sd4 ed10 sn160

:d

yes that's what I thought but Geoff doesn't agree. He thinks that's this John

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=6598&iid=STSRG12_2194_2196-0064&fn=John&ln=Sherratt&st=d&ssrc=&pid=16565431

I'm not sure. I think you are right Merry.

BUT, where is the John born in Newborough in 1901 and 1911 (as on the 1891)

[Merry]

Isn't this him with the wrong age?

RG13; Piece: 2637; Folio: 73; Page: 3

There is a birth ref to fit this man being 17 in 1891 (1873 Uttoxeter), but not one for him to be 24 in 1901!

[Merry]

Can't see two of them in 1911 yet.

I guess the two places of birth are so close together they are interchangable.

More proof would be needed either way. One of them might have left the country etc.

[Merry]

I feel I have to go through it all again now as I didn't know I was supposed to be separating two people at the start so didn't read any occs or anything.

[Margaret in Burton]

Join the club Merry. There are so many John Sherratt's / Sharratt's in that area it's unbelievable

[Margaret in Burton]

Isn't this him with the wrong age?

RG13; Piece: 2637; Folio: 73; Page: 3

There is a birth ref to fit this man being 17 in 1891 (1873 Uttoxeter), but not one for him to be 24 in 1901!

I've seen that one before. I did wonder

[Margaret in Burton]

I've emailed Geoff and asked him to look at this thread.

[Margaret in Burton]

I feel I have to go through it all again now as I didn't know I was supposed to be separating two people at the start so didn't read any occs or anything.

Merry

Why do I feel as though as though I've had my wrist slapped? :D:D:D:D

[Merry]

I just meant I can't do it now!

[Margaret in Burton]

I just meant I can't do it now!

*slopes away feeling rebuked* ;);););)

[Merry]

*returns*

So, they are both gardeners etc.

I feel to go from age 17 to 32 is a big jump with the change of birthplace as well, esp when there is that 24 year old with "no birth reg" and the right birth place. (I know what I mean!!)

The problem is only finding one man in 1911 and no deaths (can't remember how hard I looked, as Soundex doesn't seem to interchange the A and the E on all sites.)

[Margaret in Burton]

I know when I visited Stafford Record Office a long time ago the marriage registers for All Saint's Newborough were missing and only had the book of banns to look at.
Looking at their website, it doesn't look different now.

Are they missing or are they still at the church?

I will email Stafford

The marriage record of John Sherratt / Sharratt to Sarah Ann Lindsey in 1893 would sort this out.

[Geoff]

Hello Marg/Merry,

I find I go around in circles with this one. :confused: There is the problem of Sherratt/Sharratt, the names seem interchangeable depending on the census enumerator. I think I should go back to scratch as I may have got mixed up with places of birth as I'm not familiar with North Staffs villages. It seems that Newborough/Abbots Bromley/Hoar Cross are all quite separate though close to each other. One thing I found odd was in 1911 John & Sarah Ann had 3 girls, Annie, Patty and Nelly and 2 boys, Frank (Francis Augustus J) and Alex (Alexander Lindsey). Obviously the names they were called at home not their registered names. I couldn't find an Annie, Patty I think must be Martha and Nelly was Eleanor.
That's all for now before my head explodes!:eek:
Geoff

[Merry]

Welcome to the forum, Geoff :)

One thing I found odd was in 1911 John & Sarah Ann had 3 girls, Annie, Patty and Nelly and 2 boys, Frank (Francis Augustus J) and Alex (Alexander Lindsey). Obviously the names they were called at home not their registered names

Not knowing how these people fit in to your family, I am unsure as to what you find odd??

You mentioned you couldn't find Annie. I wondered if this is her:

Births Jun 1894
Sherratt Phebe Anne Uttoxeter 6b 373

As Marg said, the marriage cert for John and Sarah would sort out which Jhn he is.

[borobabs]

Sorry nothing to add re the thread but just wanted to say welocme onboard the site Geoff, they are a great lot on here so dont be afraid to post your questions

[Geoff]

Thanks Babs (is that your name?),
I'm sure I'll have more questions before too long.
Geoff

[borobabs]

Yes Geoff thats right , we have a compitition type thing which starts every Friday the new one this time is this one join in Geoff its surprising what you find you havnt got already ;;;

http://genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=10615

[Geoff]

"Not knowing how these people fit in to your family, I am unsure as to what you find odd??"

Only odd because I'm used to being able to identify most people in censuses from a forename, I could only link 'Patty' with Martha and 'Nelly' with Eleanor by going back to 1901 census (when John was allegedly born 1869). Thanks for the tip about Phebe Anne, if it is her she died in 1920 in Aston.

[Margaret in Burton]

As for the close proximity of all of the Staffordshire villages then look no further than me. I live only a few miles from any of them. Newborough and Hoar Cross yes one runs into the other. Abbots Bromley is a little further away. I too will go back to basics on this. Don't want to buy the marriage cert if I can get away with it. Need a look at the marriage register. Have emailed Stafford RO and on the off chance Burton Library.

[Geoff]

Gosh Marg, you were up late!
It helps to have someone who knows these little places; I can only ever remember my grandfather Bill (also a gardener) telling me he came from Abbots Bromley but my aunt who's just turned 90 has mentioned Newborough several times (she doesn't know the area either).
Very good idea to contact the local RO etc, let us know what they say.
Geoff

[Margaret in Burton]

Gosh Marg, you were up late!
It helps to have someone who knows these little places; I can only ever remember my grandfather Bill (also a gardener) telling me he came from Abbots Bromley but my aunt who's just turned 90 has mentioned Newborough several times (she doesn't know the area either).
Very good idea to contact the local RO etc, let us know what they say.
Geoff

I woke up at about 4. lol

Posted off my phone and then went back to sleep.

Will look at this again later today.

[Margaret in Burton]

Burton Library don't hold Newborough records.

No reply from Stafford yet and I've also emailed Lichfield.

[Margaret in Burton]

Whichever John it turns out to be, I've found this death:

John Sherratt
Sep qtr 1935
aged 64
Burton upon Trent
6b 303

[Margaret in Burton]

Just setting this out again.

We have:

John Sharrett born c 1870 in Abbots Bromley parents John and Eleanor nee Woodings.

1891 - RG12; Piece: 2194; Folio 51; Page 5


John and Eleanor have a daughter Ann who has two illegitimate sons. One is John born c 1873 in Newborough

1891 - RG12; Piece: 2194; Folio 54; Page 12

This John's mother Ann I believe is a laundry maid for the Meynell Ingrams in 1901. RG13; Piece: 4198; Folio: 54; Page: 18

The Meynell Ingrams owned Hoar Cross Hall (next door to Newborough)

1911 Ann is in Congleton in Cheshire living with her other son Edward and his wife. (Edward is in Newborough in 1891)

The only John that fits in 1901 and 1911 is as in Merry's posts #2 and #3 He says he was born Abbots Bromley.


SO

Where is the other John born c 1873 in Newborough? I can't find a suitable death either for this one.

I keep thinking death overseas perhaps Boar War?

Still no reply from Stafford or Lichfield.

[kiterunner]

I don't suppose Ann filled in the "number of children" bit on the 1911 census?

[Margaret in Burton]

I don't suppose Ann filled in the "number of children" bit on the 1911 census?

I'm afraid not Kate

[Margaret in Burton]

Just heard back from Stafford.

The marriage register is still at the church. It was started in 1838 and is still in use.
Don't do many marriages do they.:rolleyes:

They've given me the address and email addy of the vicar.

I'll contact them and see what they say.

Have emailed, I know they charge to search the registers as I have seen it on the board outside the church. I have said that we only want to know John's father's name or if it is blank.
Hopefully they will take pity on us.


Mind you, I could do with searching them anyway really. We'll have to see what they come back with.

[Margaret in Burton]

Sharratt's are everywhere. Another new member has PM'd me after seeing the TO3GG about Thomas Sharratt.

Welcome John S, (it looks like he is my husbands 3rd cousin once removed.)

[Uncle John]

I've got Sherratt as a middle name for someone. But neither parent has it as a name. They came from Sunderland.

[Margaret in Burton]

It is extremely common in Staffordshire UJ in all of it's forms. Sharratt, Sherratt, Sharrod, Sharrock, Sharrott etc etc.;(;(;(;(

[Margaret in Burton]

Might have had a breakthrough in this.

Another new member on GF, John S, is also from the Sharratt family. He has found a military record on FMP for a John Sharratt born 1874. It says born Yoxall but that's only a spitting distance from Newborough. He joined in 1892 so that would explain him not being on the 1901 and 1911 census.

I'm now as certain as I can be without getting the marriage cert (still hoping the church will take pity on me and tell me the father's name. lol) that John Sharratt / Sherratt who married Sarah Ann Lindsey was the one born 1870/1871 in Abbots Bromley and the son of John Sherratt and Ann nee Richardson. The same person who Merry found in 1901 and 1911 on #1 and #2

[JohnS]

Another new member on GF, John S, is also from the Sharratt family. He has found a military record on FMP for a John Sharratt born 1874. It says born Yoxall but that's only a spitting distance from Newborough. He joined in 1892 so that would explain him not being on the 1901 and 1911 census.

Not so sure about that Marg. The military record is for the Militia which was basically a 'Home Guard' before the Regular Army was formed (if I interpret it correctly) so I'm not sure that he would have been out of the country or not on census returns.

[Merry]

What does "purchased" mean on his militia record? (page 3)

[Margaret in Burton]

Not so sure about that Marg. The military record is for the Militia which was basically a 'Home Guard' before the Regular Army was formed (if I interpret it correctly) so I'm not sure that he would have been out of the country or not on census returns.

He maybe is in the country but not where we expect him to be. There are so may mistranscriptions of Sharratt.

[Merry]

Here's another record for a man the right age:


Name: SHARRATT, John
Station: Singapore
Country: Singapore
Year: 1897
Page: 627
Age at death: 22
Record source: GRO Army Death Indices (1881 to 1955)

[Margaret in Burton]

What does "purchased" mean on his militia record? (page 3)

He purchased a commission of some sort I would think.

[Merry]

I wasn't sure that a farm labourer would be able to afford that, unless a commission in the militia was cheap?! He was a priavte for the previous 4 or 5 months.

[Margaret in Burton]

Here's another record for a man the right age:


Name: SHARRATT, John
Station: Singapore
Country: Singapore
Year: 1897
Page: 627
Age at death: 22
Record source: GRO Army Death Indices (1881 to 1955)

I still think it's the same man.

[Margaret in Burton]

I wasn't sure that a farm labourer would be able to afford that, unless a commission in the militia was cheap?! He was a priavte for the previous 4 or 5 months.

What else could purchased mean?

[Margaret in Burton]

Sorry my eyes won't stay open any longer. Back to this tomorrow

[Merry]

What else could purchased mean?

No idea!

[kiterunner]

Could he have purchased his way out of the militia?

[Margaret in Burton]

Could he have purchased his way out of the militia?

Possible

I wonder if that death Merry found is him #39, it's the right age and I can't find a suitable death over here.

[Margaret in Burton]

Had a reply from the churchwarden at All Saints, Newborough.

John Sherratt married Sarah Lindsey on 8th Nov.1893. His father was also named John Sherratt and was a gardener and groom.


This means that Merry was correct in her findings on John on the census.

[Merry]

Oh good! :D