View Full Version : Any ideas?
These are probably questions without an answer, but...
Q1.
William Ariel, born Bristol, all his family seem to be from Bristol, marries Elizabeth Kirkby, 16th April 1787 in Bristol (St Phillips and St Jacobs)
Elizabeth was the daughter of David Kirkby and Agatha Sawrey, both long established Lancashire families.
What was Elizabeth doing in Bristol???
Why not get married in Lancs??
She was not 'in service' or anything like that...
Q2
William and Elizabeth Ariel's son, Myles, living all his life in Bristol, married Elizabeth Naylor 12th Sept 1815 in St John's Wakefield, Yorkshire.
Elizabeth was born Yorkshire (Cleckheaton) and lived there, but waht was Myles doing there?
Myles and Elizabeth's first child was born back in Bristol, where they lived until their deaths.
I'd love to know what the prior connections were.
They wouldn't have just popped across the country on the offchance of getting hitched.......surely??
Racing?
http://www.archive.org/stream/generalstudbook07unkngoog/generalstudbook07unkngoog_djvu.txt
This studbook "From the earliest Accounts to the Year 1884 inclusive" is in 15 volumes. The link above has "Ariel" (who seems to be a racehorse in this incarnation??), Kirkby, Sawrey and Naylor (seem to be owners) in the 1870s and 1880s.
There's a "Lancashire Lass", a "Yorkshire Lass" and a "Duchess of Gloucester"...?
Not sure Janet......my lot were a bit earlier than the 1870s.
I'm thinking some sort of trade partners, but can't find anything.
Not sure if the marriage licences would tell me anything, but I can't get an answer out of Bristol for the first and the Yorkshire one is 'supposed' to be available, but they can't find it......lol
David Kirkby and Agatha Sawrey
Where did these two die?
I hate to mention this, but the only similarity I have seen in a tree which links to mine - similar scenario, similar date - was where the people concerned all owned land/plantations in the West Indies. Over there they lived close together, but over here the families were from opposite ends of the country, however some family and extended family did marry into the other family, just like yours.
I see a Naylor married Elizabeth Naylor to Myles Ariel. Was he a relative?
Merry
David Kirkby and his wife Agatha (nee Sawrey) born and died Hawkshead, Lancs. Between those two families (going way back) there wasn't much of Lancs they didn't own....except the bits the 'Holdens' had...lol
Their daughter, Elizabeth was born 1766 in Hawkshead, along with all her siblings.
Elizabeth marries William Ariel in 1787 in Bristol.
The Naylors come into the picture when the above Elizabeth and William's son marries Elizabeth Naylor in 1815 in Yorkshire.
The Ariels certainly had links to to West Indies.
When Elizabeth Naylor's mother marries, she is Elizabeth Eyre "daughter of a merchant of this town" in the marriage notice. Pity they don't say the "merchant's" name.....lol
They all have a fair swag of wealth. I have all the wills and they aren't short of a quid.
Nothing to do with your Q, but have you a need for this?
London Evening Post (London, England), October 23, 1777 - October 25, 1777
The 13th instant, Charles Simson (sic) Esq a Lieutenant in the first regiment of footguards, son and heir of the late General Simpson Esq of Stockton in Durham to Miss Elizabeth Naylor dau of the late Mr Jeremy Naylor of Wakefield.
The 'same' notice in The Morning Chronicle says the marriage was at Harrowgate and Simson was spelled without the P for the dad too.
I note Jeremy Naynor is only a Mr!!
London Courant Westminster Chronicle and Daily Advertiser (London, England), Monday, October 29, 1781
Last Tuesday was marriedat Wakefield in Yorkshire, George Lloyd Esq of Manchester to Miss Elizabet Naylor of Wakefield.
Did the Naylors call everyone Elizabeth? I didn't have that name in my search criteria - i's a fluke! lol
Jeremiah Naylor of Wakefield was a cloth dealer and was asked by the government to report on the state of the import of raw goods in 1800. Says he had been in the trade for 24 years. Might be the son of the other one?
My Elizabeth Naylor born 1797 had one brother, George 1796. I'd say George died before his father in 1806 as there is no mention of him in George seniors will.
No other children, but I believe both parents were quite old when they married. Can't find any other children for George, certainly none in his will.
The Naylors were into mills so Jeremiah was probably a rellie. My lot were non-cons as well.
Looks like the Naylor girls were all Elizabeths...lol
Apart from OH's great grandmother, every Ariel male in his line has married an Elizabeth (including me....lol)
Maybe they had to go to the other end of the country to find an Elizabeth they weren't related to...................
The Naylors were into mills so Jeremiah was probably a rellie. My lot were non-cons as well.
I think you need to expand your tree out of the main line if possible, as it may be a cousin who has the first Yorkshire/Bristol link or some other link that ties everything up.
That's the trouble Merry.......I can't expand the Naylor/Eyre tree at all.
I've done the Ariel, Kirkby and Sawrey trees.
I have another question, but it might need another thread..
Elizabeth Naylor (1797) gave her grandson a ring with the Eyre crest on it. He was wearing it when he went missing in Australia in the 1850s.
Would she have had that ring if she had brothers?????
Who knows - there might have been six rings or twenty rings or only one!
I can't expand the Naylor/Eyre tree at all.
Not backwards either?
No not at all.
I can only get back to the marriage of Elizabeth Eyre and George Naylor. There is a marriage licence but the records office in Yorkshire can't find it. Not sure that it would have any parents anyway as they were both well over full age.
Do you have a rough dob for George (from burial?)
1739. He died 1806 aged 67.
Have you checked all the Naylor/Wakefield PCC wills for a mention? Esp this 1766 one: Will of Elizabeth Naylor, Spinster of Wakefield , Yorkshire
Anything to investigate here?
http://www.clanbarker.com/getperson.php?personID=I4645&tree=Br
I'm not quite sure if 'Gilbert's will' means Gilbert Brooksbank's will?
Yeh it is, as Rebecca Brooksbank married Richard Naylor in 1712. Ancestry has the image but has mistranscribed her surname as Brooks!
So, could she have had a son called George 27 years later? He is the last listed, suggesting he might have been the youngest, or George could have been a child of one of her older children. *clutches straws* lol
Not sure......a bit early, but my George Naylor (died 1806) left money for an Independant Chapel in Clayton. Nobody's ever found it...lol.
I've downloaded those other wills but nothing to say they are mine (yet).
Found one for a Jane Eyre which looked promising as there was a Jane Eyre Ariel, but nuffin.
I'll try getting more wills tomorrow.
Looks like Rebecca (dau of Gilbert Brooksbank) was bap 1686 so too old to be the mother of George Naylor b 1739. Still with all their money and Richard Naylor being of Birstall makes some possible connection.
Actually, Rebecca Brooksbank dau of Gilbert seems to be ten-a-penny in Yorks so maybe that isn't the right one?
Anyway, it would be interesting to see what Gilbert B has to say about his legatee George Naylor.
Just realised Gilbert left his stuff to his nieces and nephews not his grandchildren. Can't qiuite understand how that fits and have to go out now.....
In the 1700s, the wealthy would take their holidays in London or Bath.
I don't know the history of the Liverpool Docks, but wonder whether Bristol was the more important port in the 1700s before the advent of canals?
If the mills were cotton mills, it may have been imported to Bristol, so you would have regular trade connections.
Thanks Phoenix....Bristol was a very important port. I know the Naylors were into mills and the Ariels were traders of cotton, wine, sugar etc.
Not sure how the Kirkby girl ended up there.....lol
Maybe they were on holidays..The Ariels had property in Bath as well.
Will take a closer look at the Brooksbanks....although the last thing I want is another name......lol
Libby a new name might sort everything out for you so you never know.
I can't help but good luck.
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