View Full Version : Finding the death of Wm Hallowell in Liverpool area
I have tried to find the death of William Hallowell for a long time now, it may be lost for ever.
William was born about 1793 in Yorkshire according to the Liverpool 1851 census.
In the 1841 census he was living at Upper Stanhope Street, Toxteth Park with his wife Elizabeth, 2 sons and a daughter.
William was aged 45 occupation as a coachman.
By the 1851 census the family are now living at 1 court 6 house Stanhope Street, Toxteth Park.
Williams age is 58 occupation as a carter, with his wife, 2 sons and daughter.
According to the 1861 census Elizabeth Halliwell is listed as head, with son and daughter living at Barton Lane, West Derby.
William cannot be traced by myself in the death records, thats not to say I may have missed it.
Elizabeth died in 1865 and is listed as widow on her death certificate.
I dont know if any kind soul can clear this long term matter up for me, it would be one less headache.
Thank you.
kiterunner
09-06-11, 17:53
I can't see a death listed in Liverpool / West Derby but of course he could have died away from home in which case there are lots of possibles.
Olde Crone
09-06-11, 18:00
Have you discounted the one who died in 1860 aged 64 (Stockport)?
Of course if his surname is misspelled, he could be any of many!
OC
kiterunner
09-06-11, 18:10
There is a family tree on ancestry which shows William's son George getting married to Mary Jane Price in 1858. The marriage certificate is also on ancestry in the Liverpool parish records, and for George's father it says William Hallawell, warehouseman. It doesn't say "deceased", although of course that doesn't mean he was definitely still alive.
Thanks for replies, I just cannot see him going this far a field ie. Stockport with his job as a carter, hope that does not sound foolish.
Hi Kiterunner,
Yes I have this info and I have debated it, thats not to say he did not die 1858 to 1861 ?
Thanks for looking.
tenterfieldjulie
09-06-11, 22:45
In Tenterfield, NSW there was a farmer called George Helliwell, he would have been a contemporary of my father's, so born 1900/10s. It must be a difficult name to track as there must be lots of mistranscriptions. Good luck.
garstonite
10-06-11, 05:03
29th August 1858 at St Mary,Edge Hill,Liverpool
Mary Jane Price to George HALLAWALL ....another version of the spelling
allan
garstonite
10-06-11, 05:15
could this be his marriage
marriage 9th July 1818 at St Anne Richmond, Liverpool
William Halliwell a COACHMAN of this parish to
Elizabeth Jones ( X ) a spinster of this parish
witness Richard Jones ( X ) and Benjamin Vaughan
married by Banns by William Blundell minister
being a coachman and marrying an Elizabeth, it looks a possible
what age does it state the children are in 1841 census ?
possible children
Elizabeth Halliwell babtised 30th sep 1821 at St Peter,Liverpool
child of William Halliwell and Elizabeth
Coachman
abode Rathbone Street
babtised by J Pulford
Sarah Halliwell babtised 25th May 1823 ....same church and parents
a Coachman
abode Berry St ...(gone up in the world )
William Halliwell babtised 16 mar 1828 ...same church /parents/abode Berry St
occupation a FRUITERER ??.....not a coachman and not a carter ???......
Harriet Halliwell babtised 5th sept 1830 same church / parents /abode
occ a SHOPKEEPER ...he now owns the shop
OK...gone 20 years since that marriage...that`s all the children I could find .....do ANY of the children match yours in 1841 census ???.....IF this is your William and Elizabeth , that`s 4 children ( only one son - I may have missed one...so many babtisms with the various spellings of that name )...you stated 3...maybe one of these children left home or died before the 1841 census......if born abt 1793 , William would have been about 25 at his marriage in 1818....
allan
garstonite
10-06-11, 05:51
By the way Kopite...as you probably know...you could walk from Berry St to Stanhope St in about 10 minutes.... so if the Shop didn`t work out, William may have sold it and gone back to being a coachman by 1841 ...but stayed in the area
allan
Thanks for replies, I just cannot see him going this far a field ie. Stockport with his job as a carter, hope that does not sound foolish.
It can't be a foolish thought as it's one I used to have :rolleyes::) until I searched for someone with a less tricky name and a similar job, only to find he had died in Australia, so people did get about!! Your chap might have gone on a day trip on a train or all sorts of other possibilities.
I don't know much about West Derby area records, but I do know they are not on Lancs BMD yet, so perhaps this death reg is just one that didn't reach the GRO and it will turn up when Lancs BMD gets better coverage?
garstonite
10-06-11, 07:51
Hiya Merry...the area of Stanhope Street would be Toxteth Park and not West Derby around 1860....on saying that I am not quite sure when they ceased using Toxteth Park as a register office , but I think it was after 1860....allan
Ah right. I was going by Elizabeth's address in 1861, given it's more likely Wm died closer to that date than 1851.
I've just looked at Genuki and that says the area of Toxteth Park was in West Derby district 1837-1881 and after that it had it's own district until 1922 when it was absorbed into Liverpool.
In 1851 the sub-district for Stanhope St is Toxteth Park though!
garstonite
10-06-11, 09:02
Ah right. I was going by Elizabeth's address in 1861, given it's more likely Wm died closer to that date than 1851.
Apologies Merry...you are quite right...after re reading the first post....of course it would be the West Derby area.....posh area that in those days 1861...this man gradually moved up in class address wise....
allan:o
OK, here's a challenge for someone else as I have to go out in a min:
Liverpool Mercury etc (Liverpool, England), Friday, October 3, 1851
Dies, Sept 28th after a short but severe illness, aged 58 Mr William Hallowell late of Berry Street.
Now, it doesn't say which Berry Street and in 1851 there was one in Liverpool and one in Manchester (obviously the Liv one woud be more likely if it is the right man, which it probably isn't!!) and the chap we are after wasn't living at any Berry St a few months previous. Also there is a death reg in Manchester District which could be for the man in the paper (and/or be the right/wrong man etc), but I was wanting to see how many 58 year olds were around on the 1851 census and where any others were living, but I don't have time!
kiterunner
10-06-11, 09:24
This site:
http://liverpool-1825.tripod.com/street5.htm
lists a William Hallowell at 13 Berry Street in 1825.
I haven't managed to work out where he got the information from.
kiterunner
10-06-11, 09:35
Can't find any Hallowells at Berry Street in 1841.
garstonite
10-06-11, 10:02
This site:
http://liverpool-1825.tripod.com/street5.htm
lists a William Hallowell at 13 Berry Street in 1825.
I haven't managed to work out where he got the information from.
see post 9
children babtised between 1823 and 1828 ...abode Berry Street
in 1851 census he is in Stanhope street
allan
kiterunner
10-06-11, 10:19
They're transcribed as Hallswell on the 1841 on ancestry, at Upper Stanhope St., although it says Hallowell on the image:
William Hallowell 45 Coachman N
Elizabeth Do 46 Y
Wm Do 13 Y
George Do 10 Y
Mary Do 6 Y
Hmm....the one in Berry Street in the 1820s is in Gores' Directory of Liverpool, 1827 listed at 4 Berry Street and he is a fruiterer.
I guess whoever the man was who died in 1851 he was 'of Berry St' an awful long time before!
I haven't yet found anyone else on the 1851 census who is aged very close to 58.
Baptisms:
Liverpool St Mark
Dec 31st 1826 Wm son of Wm and Eliz Hallowell of Berry St Fruiterer
So, slightly older than the son of the carrier (Wm aged 22 in 1851).
There's a Thomas Hallowell bap 26th Dec 1819 (same named parents) of Rathbone St but dad is a coachman.
Of course either may or may not be the same people.
I was hoping to find baps for all three children to try and work this out
Kate, I see you said Wm was 13 in 1841 so one year better! lol The boy bap in Dec 1826 was apparently born in Jan 1826.
This seems more likely to be the bap of the right Wm H:
WILLIAM HALLOWELL
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 16 MAR 1828 Saint Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: WILLIAM HALLOWELL
Mother: ELIZABETH
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages: Extracted birth or christening record for locality listed in the record.
kiterunner
10-06-11, 11:40
Ancestry's PR's for Liverpool St Peter seem to start at 1839. Or should I say, there is a gap from 1813 to 1838.
How annoying.
I have looked for an alternative man to fit the 1851 death on the 1851 census without success, but maybe I should also try the 1841 census in case he forgot to fill in the form in 1851. I bet these people would be amazed to know how hard we look for them after 160 years!!
Hmmm, there's a Wm Hollowell aged 50 in Galton St Liverpool who is a grocer so could conceivably have been a fruiterer before that. However, he doesn't have any family with him to help decide if this is the Berry St man.
Hello Merry & garstonite,
Thank you for your hard detective work you may have turned his death up with that snippet.
When I was doing his research and his children's I found on ther birth certs several occupations over the time.
According to Piggot's & Baines directories from 1822-32 he was a fruiterer at 4 the 13 berry St also had a house in Rathbone St.
His children are
Thomas bap 26/12 1819 St Mark, Upp Duke St.
Elizabeth bap 30/9/1821 St.Peter
Sarah bap 25/5/1823 St.Peter (not found later)
William bap 31/12/1826 St.Mark (not found later)
William bap 16/3/1828 St.Peter
Harriet bap 5/9/1830 St.Peter (not found later)
George bap 17/9/1831 St.Peter
Mary possibly 1834 not found her bapt.
All born to William & Elizabeth at Berry St except Thomas born in Rathbone St.
4 of these children married father's death not noted
Thanks again for help keep it coming if possible please.
Dave
OK, here's a challenge for someone else as I have to go out in a min:
Liverpool Mercury etc (Liverpool, England), Friday, October 3, 1851
Dies, Sept 28th after a short but severe illness, aged 58 Mr William Hallowell late of Berry Street.
Now, it doesn't say which Berry Street and in 1851 there was one in Liverpool and one in Manchester (obviously the Liv one woud be more likely if it is the right man, which it probably isn't!!) and the chap we are after wasn't living at any Berry St a few months previous. Also there is a death reg in Manchester District which could be for the man in the paper (and/or be the right/wrong man etc), but I was wanting to see how many 58 year olds were around on the 1851 census and where any others were living, but I don't have time!
Oh Merry,
Surely this would be to much to expect age 58 giving him a birth year of 1793 yaba dabba doo fingers x
Dave
By the way Kopite...as you probably know...you could walk from Berry St to Stanhope St in about 10 minutes.... so if the Shop didn`t work out, William may have sold it and gone back to being a coachman by 1841 ...but stayed in the area
allan
Allan,
All of your post on my subject have been correct, I have added a little bit more just before this post.
Thanks
dave
Oh Merry,
Surely this would be to much to expect age 58 giving him a birth year of 1793 yaba dabba doo fingers x
Dave
Yes, I'd say it is him if all those baptisms give the right address. I only had access to the William 1826 one, which wasn't enough.
So, he died in Manchester I presume:
Deaths Dec 1851
Hallewell William Manchester 20 509
Merry,
This has blown me out of the water, I will have to send for his certificate and give what details I have and fingers x its him.
tenterfieldjulie
11-06-11, 08:14
Well done all...
garstonite
12-06-11, 06:18
good luck with the cert...and well done Merry...again ...u r priceless
allan
Merry,
I meant to ask you where you found the Liverpool Mercury article, is it for public viewing.
Thanks again.
If he died in Manchester where would he have possibly been buried ?
kiterunner
13-06-11, 22:15
He may well still have been in buried in Liverpool, don't you think?
Merry,
I meant to ask you where you found the Liverpool Mercury article, is it for public viewing.
Thanks again.
I have access to the Gale Newspaper site via my local library membership. Check with your local library as to what online services they offer and what is available to view from your home computer.
Hi
I have just recieved the death certificate for William Hallewell.
It is not my missing person, this poor soul was age 4 living at 22 Slater Street, Manchester.
Wringing of hands.
Ooh, so where is the death registration for the man in the paper?
That my dear Watson is the case in question ?
Well, Wigan is closer than Manchester:
Deaths Sep 1851
HALLIWELL William Wigan 21 554
HELLEWELL William Henry Halifax 22 173
HELLIWELL William Wortley 22 523
HELLIWELL William Halifax 22 154
HOLWILL William Newton Abbot 10 83
I think perhaps we over focused on Manchester as I thought (sorry :o) that was where the 'other' Berry Street was so making sense of him dying in that district. Later we realised the 'of Berry Street' refered to a long time previous so he could have died anywhere. (but probably not Newton Abbot!)
Forget that if you haven't checked Lancs BMD. I know they have age at death but not full coverage. Can any of the above be eliminated whilst I eat my lasagne?
Olde Crone
22-06-11, 17:20
The one in Wigan looks spot on, he was 53 in 1851.
OC
But he needs to be 58 doesn't he?
Olde Crone
22-06-11, 17:44
Yes, sorry!
*Puts new battery in calculator*
OC
Sadly, there's a chap in Wigan on the census in 1851 who doesn't know he doesn't have long :o
This could be a "case unsolved" but I will keep looking and asking questions.
Thank you all who have put their six penneth in.
vBulletin® v3.8.7 PL3, Copyright ©2000-2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.