View Full Version : Catherine Taylor
Name - "official" name and what they were known as Catherine Taylor guessing dob approx 1780
Date and place of birth Not Known
Names of parents Not Known
Date and place of baptism - if applicable Not Known
Details of each of his or her marriages - if any Married Alexander Grieve Greive-Grive where - Not known (son born 1805 High Paisley, Renf, died before 1855
Occupation(s) - if any Not Known
Addresses where they lived (including county if in UK) - and please list which censuses you have or haven't found him/her on (if s/he lived in census times!). Guessing High Paisley Renfrewshire
Date, place and cause of death Not Known
Date and place of burial. Not Known
Incidentally I have mistyped my 1841 census for the son, and wonder if someone could decipher my bad typing!!! lol
1841 Census Peter Grive
aged 35, estimated birth year abt 1806
born Renfrewshire, Scotland
Cpimtru Renfrewshire covo;[arosj {aos;eu :pw
Address No 10 Smiths St
Occupation Cotton H L W
Parish Number 559
Ed 20A
kiterunner
28-05-11, 14:59
civil parish Paisley
then I'm not sure what the keystrokes are that make the smiley with tongue sticking out so I can't decipher that bit. If I figure it out I'll post that bit in a minute!
Basically, you had your left hand in the right place, but your right hand was on the keys just to the right of where they should have been.
kiterunner
28-05-11, 15:00
Okay, I've found out how you make that smiley, so that bit is "Low".
kiterunner
28-05-11, 15:07
Found the marriage on FamilySearch:
Alexander Greeve married Catherine Taylor 6 Jul 1794 Middle Church, Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland.
Their children: Patrick Grive born 15 May 1795, baptised 24 May 1795 Abbey; Robert Grieve born 22 Jan 1797, baptised 29 Jan 1797 at High Church; Alexander Grieve born 15 Jan 1804, baptised 21 Jan 1804 High Church, Peter Grieve born 31 Oct 1805, baptised 14 Nov 1805 High Church.
The images on Scotland's People might give you more information.
Thanks for that information Kite - you've given me quite a bit to work with.
I still haven't worked out what the sentence was that I mistyped, maybe someone can look up census for me again. I only picked it up when I was looking for Catherine Taylors details.
Jood, Kite is saying civil parish Paisley Low for
covo;[arosj {aos;eu :pw
I worked it out too and got the same.
Ooops - I missed that part of the message Janet - thank you! Despite being a typist for so song, and I still good at having one hand on the wrong keys!
kiterunner
29-05-11, 15:37
I think you've added "Cpimtru" since I last looked at it? I make that "Country".
You're right Kite - I did! I must be more careful with my typing! lol
Name - "official" name and what they were known as Catherine Taylor
Date and place of birth don't know
Names of parents don't know
Date and place of baptism - if applicable don't know
Details of each of his or her marriages - if any Married Alexander Grieve (dont know when)
Occupation(s) - if any dont know
Addresses where they lived (including county if in UK) - and please list which censuses you have or haven't found him/her on (if s/he lived in census times!). Son Peter was born 30 Nov 1805 in High Paisley, Renfrew. I don't know if Peter had any siblings.
Date, place and cause of death don't know
Date and place of burial. don't know
Son Peter was 35 in 1841 Census and living in 10 Smiths Sreet. Occupation HLW
I know Grieve has been spelt Grive and Greive
I didn't really have much information, did I? :(
It seems they were from the High Paisley area.
Some more info for you.
I have found a sibling for Peter:
Alexander Grieve, born 15 Jan 1804, baptised High Church, Paisley on 21 January 1894. Parents: Alexander Grieve and Cathrine Taylor.
Scottish naming traditions:
First born son - named after paternal grandfather
Second son - named after maternal grandfather
Third - named after father
Fourth - named after father's oldest brother
Fifth - named after mother's oldest brother
It's not a hard and fast rule, but a good signpost particularly if the same names repeat through the generations in the same area.
With this in mind, here's what I've found using info on Family Search.
Alexander Greive, born 15 Jan 1773 and baptised in Port Glasgow, Renfrew. Parents: Peter Greive and Sarah Boyd.
Alexander Greive born 18 Jan 1714 and baptised at the West or Old Parish, Greenock, Renfrew. Parents: Alexander Greive and Elizabeth Walker.
I think this is your Catherine.
Catherine Taylor, baptised 14 November 1786, Middle or New Parish, Greenock. Father: Neill Taylor. Mother: Euphemia Turner.
Catherine's father Neill Taylor was born on 15 March 1762 and baptised on 25 March at the West or Old Parish, Greenick. Father: Niell Taylor. Mother Mary Thomson.
1781 survey of Paisley:
18,615 people
3,723 families
3,800 weavers, looms
132 thread mills.
Alexander Grieve married Catherine Taylor on 6 July 1794, Middle Church, Paisley.
Alexander Grieve married Elizabeth Walker on 20 Jan 1704, West or Old Church, Greenock.
Wow shona Jood will be so cuffed with what you have found, she wont be on till about 10ish as she lives in Aus
Oh - I didn't know she was in Aus. Just been reading about Paisley weavers emigrating to Aus and Canada.
Paisley and weaving
Weaving in Paisley was a cottage industry - most of the weavers worked in silk, but were versatile and could also weave cotton, lawn and tweed.
Decorative shawls from Kashmir found their way to the UK thanks to employees of the East India Company. They were highly desirable, but expensive. Paisley weavers found they could make then shawls for a tenth of the price. Paisley shawls remained fashionable from the 1780s until the 1870s.
The weaving was largely carried out by men. The typical 'wabster's' cottage was single story with the living quarters on one side and the weaving room on the other. Good wages in the late 18th and early 19th centuries allowed for leisure activities, particularly gardening. The men often incorporated stylised floral designs in the shawls. By 1820s, the land loom weavers would earn £1 a week.
But it wasn't to last. The introduction of Jacquard looms housed in factories meant that the hand loom weavers had to work longer for less money. Long regarded as radicals in both politics and religion, thousands went in strike in the 1820s. But they couldn't compete with the factories, whcih required fewer workers. Many lost their livelihoods and left for Canada and Australia. It was noted in 1832 that 'weavers of Paisley were covered in rags and half-starved.'
Paisley is divided into three parishes: High, Middle and Low.
kiterunner
28-08-12, 18:26
I think this is your Catherine.
Catherine Taylor, baptised 14 November 1786, Middle or New Parish, Greenock. Father: Neill Taylor. Mother: Euphemia Turner.
Any particular reason why you think this is the right Catherine, please, Shona? If she got married in 1794 then she was born long before 1786, and children were usually baptised when they were babies in those days.
kiterunner
28-08-12, 18:38
The Alexander Greeve / Catherine Taylor marriage is on Scotland's People, and the image on there may or may not give further information such as Alexander's occupation, places of residence for both and the name of Catherine's father. Also the images for the baptisms of their children may or may not give further information, such as place of residence, father's occupation, and names of witnesses.
There are these children on FamilySearch, in addition to Alexander jr and Peter:
Patrick Grive, child of Alexander Grive and Katharine Taylor, born 15 May 1795, baptised 24 May 1795 (sorry, FamilySearch is being silly now and not showing me the church name, I think it was Paisley Abbey)
Robert Grieve, child of Alexander Grieve and Catharin Taylor, born 22 Jan 1797, baptised 29 Jan 1797 High Church, Paisley
So if they followed traditional Scottish naming patterns, Alexander's father could be named Patrick and Catherine's could be named Robert. But Patrick was sometimes a variant of Peter, so maybe they viewed them as the same name, and maybe Patrick died and Peter was named after the same person? In which case Alexander could be the one born 1773 Port Glasgow, son of Peter Greive and Sarah Boyd. If I were you, Jood, I would view the images on SP for Alexander and Catherine's marriage and their children's baptisms next to see if there is any extra info on them.
Kite, I agree that the images need to be checked on Scotland's People.
Until the 20th century in Scotland, girls aged 12 and boys aged 14 could get married, which is why I didn't dismiss the dates for the birth and marraige of Catherine Taylor. I was taken aback when I first came across very young girls marrying, sometimes to much older men.
kiterunner
28-08-12, 19:15
Alexander and Catherine's first son was born in 1795 and Catherine wouldn't have been 9 years old when he was born, so that Greenock one is unlikely to be her baptism. Also none of her sons was named Neill as far as we know (i.e. none that we have found yet). If only we could find some daughters for this couple to get likely names for their mothers!
Must brush up in my sums!
Catherine and Alexander's son, Peter, in the 1841 census:
Peter Grive, 35
Mary, 34
Alexander, 16
John, 15
Mary, 12,
Jean, 10,
Peter, 5
Janet, 2
So it woud seem that both Peter and Alexander are very much Grieve names.
Thanks Shona and Kate. Peter Grieve married Jane Galloway in 1824 and this is a fact as some of our relatives had Galloway in their name.
I omitted to say that Peter Grieve in the 1841 census shows
1841 Census
Peter Grive
aged 35, estimated birth year abt 1806
born Paisley Renfrew
Paisley
Address No 10 Smiths St
Occupation Cotton H L W
Parish Number 559
Ed 20A
Alexander Grive abt 1825 Renfrew Paisley Low Renfrew
Janet Grive abt 1839 Renfrew Paisley Low Renfrew
Jean Grive abt 1831 Renfrew Paisley Low Renfrew
John Grive abt 1826 Renfrew Paisley Low Renfrew
Mary Grive abt 1807 Renfrew Paisley Low Renfrew
Mary Grive abt 1829 Renfrew Paisley Low Renfrew
Peter Grive abt 1806 Renfrew Paisley Low Renfrew
Peter Grive abt 1836 Renfrew Paisley Low Renfrew
A mixture of ages here, but shows Peter b 1806 a sibling Mary born 1807, and some adults Peter (1836) Mary (1829) John (1826) Janet 1839) Jean (1831)
Referring to the name patterns, Peter & Jane had two children named Jane & John - so do I discount the other names suggested? I'm a little bit confused now.
I do appreciate your help. (and thanks Babs)
Notice how the surname changes from Greeve Greive Grieve Grive.
kiterunner
28-08-12, 21:57
A mixture of ages here, but shows Peter b 1806 a sibling Mary born 1807, and some adults Peter (1836) Mary (1829) John (1826) Janet 1839) Jean (1831) How do you know that Mary is his sister, please, Jood? Also the rest of them are children, aren't they? :confused:
Referring to the name patterns, Peter & Jane had two children named Jane & John - so do I discount the other names suggested? I'm a little bit confused now. Naming patterns weren't always followed so you can't really rule anything out based on children's names, it's just that they can often be a good clue.
I'll go back a bit further. Jane Grieve married my great grandfather William Laughlan on 16 October 1855 in St Patricks, Partick, Renfrew.
Children were John, William John, (my grandfather) George Hepburn, Jane Galloway, Catherine Laughlan.
The name William Laughlan went for 3 generations.
Jane Grieves father was Peter Grieve 1805-1855 and mother was Jane Galloway (1803-1878
The 1841 Census shows him (Peter) to be 35 in 1841, thus born in 1805-6.
I only have two children listed for Peter & Jane - Jane Grieve (1835) and John (1825) tho there are apparently some more in between.
The 1851 census shows John now 26 and born in 1825, widower - his son John 3, and his mother Jean Galloway, widow aged 44, thus born in 1807.
I had Peters parents as Alexander Grieve & Catherine Taylor (note Jane Grieve and William Laughlan called one of their daughters Catherine, and other family names were Jane, John & William.
In answer to your question, I really don't know the relationship of Mary though. :(
kiterunner
28-08-12, 22:33
Judging by the list of names you quoted from the 1841 census, it looks as though Peter named his eldest son Alexander after his father, doesn't it? Of course we can't be sure the children are all Peter's as the 1841 doesn't give relationship to head of household. Have you viewed the image of that 1841 census entry, and if so, what order are the people listed in?
1841 Scotland Census Record about Peter Grive
Name: Peter Grive
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1806
Household: View other family members
Gender: Male
Where born: Renfrewshire, Scotland
Civil parish: Paisley Low
County: Renfrewshire
Address: No 10 Smiths St
Occupation: Cotton H L W
Parish Number: 559
ED: 20A
Page: 22 (click to see others on page)
View Record Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Civil Parish County Parish Number
View Record Alexander Grive abt 1825 Renfrewshire, Scotland Paisley Low Renfrewshire 559
View Record Janet Grive abt 1839 Renfrewshire, Scotland Paisley Low Renfrewshire 559
View Record Jean Grive abt 1831 Renfrewshire, Scotland Paisley Low Renfrewshire 559
View Record John Grive abt 1826 Renfrewshire, Scotland Paisley Low Renfrewshire 559
View Record Mary Grive abt 1807 Renfrewshire, Scotland Paisley Low Renfrewshire 559
View Record Mary Grive abt 1829 Renfrewshire, Scotland Paisley Low Renfrewshire 559
View Record Peter Grive abt 1806 Renfrewshire, Scotland Paisley Low Renfrewshire 559
View Record Peter Grive abt 1836 Renfrewshire, Scotland Paisley Low Renfrewshire 559
I abbreviated it before to fit on the page. Not much help, really
There are these children on FamilySearch, in addition to Alexander jr and Peter:
Patrick Grive, child of Alexander Grive and Katharine Taylor, born 15 May 1795, baptised 24 May 1795 (sorry, FamilySearch is being silly now and not showing me the church name, I think it was Paisley Abbey)
Robert Grieve, child of Alexander Grieve and Catharin Taylor, born 22 Jan 1797, baptised 29 Jan 1797 High Church, Paisley
Only problem here, is that Katharine (Catherine) was born 1786 and would only have been 9 when Patrick was born.
kiterunner
29-08-12, 09:02
Yes, that's why I'm saying that the 1786 baptism is not your Catherine.
What I was asking about the 1841 census entry was whether you had viewed the actual image of the census entry on Scotland's People which would show you the order in which the names actually appear on the page, rather than in alphabetical order as ancestry shows them in its transcription.
No I haven't seen the actual image of the 1841 Census.
Sorry, I should have read your message properly before (on 2 accounts) :)
So if I go on to Scotlands People, besides this 1841 Census, what else should I now be looking at?
Oh - Alexander & Catherine's marriage, and the baptisms of Patrick, Robert, Peter and Alexander (which should be 1795, 1797, 1805 & 1825)
Not too sure about Alexander Jnr bn 1825 tho) - its a bit confusing.
from FMP
National Archive Reference:
RG number:
Piece: 559
Book/Folio: 20
Page: 22
Reg. District:
Sub District:
Parish: Paisley
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 10, Smiths Street, Paisley
County: Renfrewshire
Name Relation Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
GRIEVE, Peter M 35 1806 Cotton H L W Renfrewshire
GRIEVE, Mary F 34 1807 Renfrewshire
GRIEVE, Alexander M 16 1825 Renfrewshire
GRIEVE, John M 15 1826 Renfrewshire
GRIEVE, Mary F 12 1829 Renfrewshire
GRIEVE, Jean F 10 1831 Renfrewshire
GRIEVE, Peter M 5 1836 Renfrewshire
GRIEVE, Janet F 2 1839 Renfrewshire
kiterunner
29-08-12, 09:49
No I haven't seen the actual image of the 1841 Census.
Sorry, I should have read your message properly before (on 2 accounts) :)
So if I go on to Scotlands People, besides this 1841 Census, what else should I now be looking at?
Oh - Alexander & Catherine's marriage, and the baptisms of Patrick, Robert, Peter and Alexander (which should be 1795, 1797, 1805 & 1825)
Not too sure about Alexander Jnr bn 1825 tho) - its a bit confusing.
Alexander jr was born 1804, not 1825 - see post #5. The Alexander who was born in 1825 was Peter's son, wasn't he?
Yes Kate as per my posting
Yes, you are right Kate, I was scrolling up and down looking for it (am a bit tired, sorry)
Babs contribution throws me a bit. Peter Grieve definitely married Jane Galloway in 1824 - so where does Mary Grieve come into the picture?
Jood pass if I put alexander grieve and tick soundex into search there is only 2 come up one 1836 Kilbarchan aged 5 and the other 1825 aged 16 Paisley
Babs I do appreciate your efforts - its a curly one, and I need to go into SP site perhaps tomorrow - its bedtime now. Night all.
Some interesting finds in the 1841 census for Paisley:
26 Storie Street
Widow Taylor, 96
Jean Niesbet, 50
44 Storie Street
Janet Greeve, 45
Jane Greeve, 35
Agnes Taylor, 35
15 Storie Street
Matthew Taylor, 55, worsted HLW
27 Storie Street
Thomas Grieve, 45, silk HLW
Agnes Grieve, 35
John Grieve, 15
Thomas Grieve, 3
kiterunner
29-08-12, 14:58
I've just found out that we have already done Catherine Taylor in TO3G, Jood. Which is she, your 3x- or 4x- ?
http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=10143
She is 3rd gt grandmother Kate.
kiterunner
29-08-12, 21:36
Shall I merge this thread into the TO3G one, then, Jood?
Yes, might as well Kate thanks. Sorry, I didnt realise I'd asked before.
I don't know if I am supposed to scrub Neil & Euphemia as Catherine Taylor's parents, and Peter & Sarah as Alexanders parents.
At the moment I am trying to get into SP (have several names lol)
Thanks Shona, not sure if they are my Grieves or not at this stage.
kiterunner
29-08-12, 22:06
I would definitely scrub Neil and Euphemia but keep Peter and Sarah as likelies if I were you.
ok will do. May have to wait till tomorrow to hear back from SP as to what user names I had.
Thanks for your help Kate & Shona. :)
vBulletin® v3.8.7 PL3, Copyright ©2000-2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.