Ann ?

[maggie_4_7]

My OH’s father's father's mother's father's mother.

Name:
Ann ?

Date and place of birth:
Not known possibly Essex

Names of parents:
Not known

Date and place of baptism:
Not known

Details of each of his or her marriages:
Marriage to Robert Hoye possibly Woodford, Essex about 1815 first born I know of William Thomas Hoye born Woodford, Essex 1816 although William married at St Martin in the Fields but lived most of his life in Essex by the census.

This thread is Robert Hoye I know practically nothing about Robert and even less about Ann.
http://genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=7220&highlight=robert+hoye

Occupation:
Shopkeeper

Addresses where they lived (including county if in UK):

Woodford, Essex, England - 1841 Census
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8978&iid=ESSCHO107_323_324-0605&fn=Anna&ln=Hoye&st=r&ssrc=pt_t17926036_p1033776460_kpidz0q3d1033776460z 0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgPLz0q3dpid&pid=16305705

Date, place and cause of death:
Not known

Date and place of burial:
Not known

Details of will / administration of their estate:
Not known

Memorial inscription:
Not known

[maggie_4_7]

I have no idea why I thought Robert Hoye's wife and William Thomas Hoye's mother was called Ann.

I have just looked up marriages for a Robert Hoye in London and found a Robert Hoye marrying an Elizabeth Williams Doolittle! I don't know why I never looked in London I think because I thought they were Essex people!!!

The daughter was named Elizabeth Williams Hoye! So I expect this woman's name should be Elizabeth Williams Doolittle what do you think?

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1623&iid=31280_194823-00332&fn=Robert&ln=Hoye&st=r&ssrc=&pid=2154571

[Sue from Southend]

The possible mother's name on the census image is Anna. Perhaps she was a second marriage? Have you got any baptisms for the children?

[maggie_4_7]

No I have never found any baptism. It's only what I have manage to glean from census and probate documents.

[maggie_4_7]

Unless I have the wrong siblings (I don't think I have) I think Robert Hoye's wife was Elizabeth Williams Doolittle and not Ann ?. I think maybe because she was the only Hoye in Woodford a shopkeeper with a daughter Elizabeth I assumed that was William's mother.

Although William's brother Robert Hoye has Robert Hoye as father on his marriage in 1845 (which was in the City of London even though he lived in Essex) Robert senior is a Wheelwright but on William's marriage in 1838 Robert senior is a Grocer!!

It's even more confusing because an Elizabeth Williams Doolittle was born in Kidderminster in 1781 but I don't think it's Robert's wife but isn't that a coincidence!

Or have I mixed up two families of Hoye?

[kiterunner]

There is a PCC will on TNA Documents Online which might be worth a look:

Will of Robert Hoye otherwise Robert Mackey of Woodford , Essex 21 July 1837

Shame it doesn't give his occupation.

Also these which may or may not be connected:

Will of Joseph Hoye, Yeoman of Woodford , Essex 11 March 1813

Will of John Hoye, Wheelwright of Woodford , Essex 05 September 1747

[maggie_4_7]

Thank you Kiterunner.

[kiterunner]

The Law Advertiser from 1830 has an entry taken from the London Gazette where Robert Hoye, Woodford, Essex, grocer, was the petitioning creditor on a bankruptcy of one Edward Urwick.

[maggie_4_7]

The Law Advertiser from 1830 has an entry taken from the London Gazette where Robert Hoye, Woodford, Essex, grocer, was the petitioning creditor on a bankruptcy of one Edward Urwick.

Blimey :)

[maggie_4_7]

I am just searching the 19 century papers and came across this so far in the Standard 6th July 1837 :-

286

Which must go with this will you found I would assume.

There is a PCC will on TNA Documents Online which might be worth a look:

Will of Robert Hoye otherwise Robert Mackey of Woodford , Essex 21 July 1837

Shame it doesn't give his occupation.

[kiterunner]

That's horrible. Still not sure if it's your Robert or not! I would think that a lot of post offices were also grocers's shops, so it might be worth paying to download the will and see.

[maggie_4_7]

Yes I have just downloaded it and it is him.

I haven't got time to transcribe it but William Thomas Hoye and Elizabeth Williams Hoye are named in it.

I think he also names a wife Ann Wallis Hoye!!! The writing is atrocious but its a bit confusing because they've crossed wife out and then wrote it again... I think Ann may have been his second wife. I can't see where he has mentioned his younger son Robert but its confusing because its so bad to understand I'm not sure if its the deceased they're talking about or the son.

I'll have to spend a bit of time transcribing this I will post it when I have I'll do it tomorrow.

It does say Robert Hoye also known as Mackey!! I wonder where the name Mackey comes in.

[maggie_4_7]

I'm on the second sentence and I'm losing the will to live no pun intended some of the words don't even look like words that I know.

[kiterunner]

Do you want to email it to me, Maggie, and I'll have a look at it? Let me know if you do and I'll PM you my email address.

[maggie_4_7]

Yes Kiterunner that would be a good idea but this is the beginning of it square brackets are words or word I cannot decipher this is the first bit I think thats explaining who is who and what name they will be known by in this document! There's another page to go.

In the Name of God this is my [ ] will and testament of Robert Hoye otherwise Robert Mackey but known to all [ ] by [ ] [ ] Robert Hoye [ ] [ ] bequeath all [ ] or [ ] (can’t read the rest of this sentence but it looks like an amount of money and then something else)…
… to my loving (they put wife here and crossed it out) and lawful wife Ann Walliss Mackey otherwise Ann Walliss Hoye but known to all [ ] by the name of Ann Walliss Hoye for [ ] [ ] life and [ ] to my [ ] [ ] as follows to Wm Thomas Hoye as [ ] - Elizabeth Williams Hoye as [ ] - Robert Hoye as baptised dated [ ] twenty five of [ ] 1832. Ann Walliss Mackey or otherwise known as Ann Walliss Hoye [ ] sole Executrix witness Ebenezer Jackson, Robert (ss) Hoye Testater in the perogative court of Canterbury In the goods of Robert Hoye otherwise Mackey dec’d

[kiterunner]

I've sent you my transcription of the actual will, Maggie, court stuff to follow later. I think the reason why "wife" is crossed out is just because it was supposed to say "loving and lawful wife" and he wrote the word "wife" too early.

[maggie_4_7]

Okay this is Kiterunner's transcript a much better job than me :)

"In the Name of God Amen this being my last Will & Testament I Robert Hoye or otherwise Robert Mackey But known to all Men by the name of Robert Hoye Do will & bequeath all & everything or article I now possess or may be possessed of hereafter unto my loving wife (crossed out) and lawful wife Ann Walliss Mackey or otherwise Ann Walliss Hoye but known to all Men by the name of Ann Walliss Hoye for her natural life and then to my three children namely as follows: Wm Thomas Hoye as christened Elizabeth Williams Hoye as christened Robert Hoye as baptised Dated this twenty fifth of November 1832 Ann Walliss Mackey or otherwise Ann Wallis Hoye whole & sole Executrix

Robert Hoye Testater

Witness Ebenezer Jackson"

[maggie_4_7]

I've sent you my transcription of the actual will, Maggie, court stuff to follow later. I think the reason why "wife" is crossed out is just because it was supposed to say "loving and lawful wife" and he wrote the word "wife" too early.

Yes I would think so.

I am now on the quest of the Mackey name/family! How weird I wondered why there weren't many Hoyes but there are a few but cannot connect them.

Like you say possibly illegitimate and his father's name was Hoye and decided to use it and to hoolah with them.

I think Ann may have been his second wife and Elizabeth Williams Doolittle his first and William and Elizabeth's mother but perhaps Robert was Ann's son.

[maggie_4_7]

I wish I could find baptisms for his children...! I think they were baptised in Essex rather than London.

On the wife thing perhaps she wasn't his lawful wife but decided he'd better put that for fear of an argument :D

[maggie_4_7]

Okay this is Kiterunner's transcript a much better job than me :)

"In the Name of God Amen this being my last Will & Testament I Robert Hoye or otherwise Robert Mackey But known to all Men by the name of Robert Hoye Do will & bequeath all & everything or article I now possess or may be possessed of hereafter unto my loving wife (crossed out) and lawful wife Ann Walliss Mackey or otherwise Ann Walliss Hoye but known to all Men by the name of Ann Walliss Hoye for her natural life and then to my three children namely as follows: Wm Thomas Hoye as christened Elizabeth Williams Hoye as christened Robert Hoye as baptised Dated this twenty fifth of November 1832 Ann Walliss Mackey or otherwise Ann Wallis Hoye whole & sole Executrix

Robert Hoye Testater

Witness Ebenezer Jackson"

I just had a thought why has he said Christened for William and Elizabeth and Baptised for Robert?

[kiterunner]

The date is the date when the will was written, not the baptism date. I don't know why it says christened for some and baptised for the other. Maybe he was checking their baptism certificates to make sure how their names were written, and the first two said "christened" on them and the other "baptised"?
I've sent you a transcription of the court stuff but it's not very interesting.

[maggie_4_7]

Yes I realise that now edited my post - thank you for that I was just about to look at it I don't know how you did that so quickly.

I found out what Ebenezer Jackson did deliver letters regarding prisoners and courts funny enough. Which I now read in the last transcription sent.

I know it's only coincidence but this is about the 4th person in OH's family that committed suicide. Two from his father's side and two from his mother's!

Edit:

Found his death reg:

Robert Hoye Mackey
Jul-Aug-Sep 1837
West Ham
Essex
Vol 12 Page 189

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?ssrc=pt_t17926036_p579380114_kpidz0q3d5793 80114z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgPLz0q3dpid_m1&srchb=r&gss=angs-b&rank=1&tid=17926036&pid=579380114&gsfn=Robert&gsln=Hoye%2fMackey&gsby=1790&gsdy=1837&_82004030__ftp=Woodford%2c+Essex%2c+England&_82004040__ftp=England&_81004020=1816&_82004020__ftp=Tower+Hamlets%2c+Middlesex&_80018000=Ann+Wallis%2cElizabeth+Williams&_80014000=William+Thomas%2cElizabeth+Williams%2cRo bert&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=21716073&db=FreeBMDDeath&indiv=1

I would not have picked that out until today that's for sure the Mackey bit I knew nothing about it's been obliterated from his decendents names.

I will have to get it that's for sure it will have to wait until pay day though I just sent for a few Scottish ones. Oh how I wish this was Scottish it might have his parents names then.

Sorry Ann has got a bit sidelined on this thread maybe move it to research perhaps because I don't know if Ann is OH's biological ancestor. But I have certainly found out a lot more about the Hoye or should I say Mackey family so its all good.

[maggie_4_7]

As Kiterunner pointed out it seemed to be a DIY will so was in some doubt to it's authenticity this is the rest of the will very boring but it is to prove that it's Robert's writing main witness Ebenezer Jackson.

"Appeared personally Edward Pettengill(?) of Woodford in the County of Essex Coach Master and Ebenezer Jackson of the same place Letter Carrier and being sworn to depose the truth jointly and severally made oath as follows and first the said Edward Pattengill for himself saith that he knew and was well acquainted with Robert Hoye for several years before and down to the time of his death and also with his manner and character of handwriting and subscription having often seen him write and write and subscribe his names to writings and having now carefully received(?) and perused the Paper writing hereunto annexed purporting to be and contain the last Will and Testament of the said deceased the said Will beginning thus “In the Name of God Amen this being my last Will and Testament” ending thus “dated this twenty fifth of November 1832” Ann Walliss Mackey or otherwise Ann Wallis Hoye whole & sole Executrix and thus subscribed Robert Hoye testator” and having also observed the word “three” as the said word appears interlined between the ninth and tenth lines of the said Will he this Deponent Edward Pettengill does depose that he verily and in his conscience believes the whole body series and contents of the said Will beginning and ending as aforesaid (save only the names “Ebenezer Jackson” appearing thereon) and the said Names & word “Robert Hoye testator” subscribed thereto and the said word “Three” interlined therein to be all of the Proper handwriting and subscription of the said deceased. And the said Ebenezer Jackson for himself saith that he was present on the 25th day of November 1832 when the said deceased executed his last Will and Testament and deponent now receiving the said Will and particularly observing the obliteration appearing next above the surname of Deponent and the names of the said Deceased as subscribed thereto for himself farther made oath that the said obliteration was caused by the said deceased having subscribed his Names to the said Will before the seal was affixed thereon which names so subscribed by him together with the word “testator” as Deponent best recollects was the word were obliterated by the deceased in the presence of the deponent and the said seal was now appearing on the said Will having been affixed the said Deceased again subscribed his name to the said Will in the presenced of this deponent adding to his signature the word “testator” and the deponent then subscribed his names as attesting the execution of the said Will by the said deceased in manner and form as thereon now appear – Edward Pettengill On the eleventh day of July 1837 the said Edward Pettengill was duly sworn to the truth of this affidavit Before me W E Curteis Surr. Pres .Charles Tibbs Noty. Pubc. E Jackson On Wednesday the 12th day of July 1837 the said Ebenezer Jackson was duly sworn to the truth of this affidavit Before me Herbert Jenner Surr. Prest. Jno Wills Not. Pubc.

Proved at London the 21st July 1837 before the Worshipful William Calverley Curteis Doctor of Laws and Surrogate by the oath of Ann Wallis Hoye otherwise Mackey (in the Will written Ann Wallis Mackey otherwise Ann Wallis Hoye) widow the Relict the sole Executrix to whom admon was granted having been first sworn duly to adminr."

As transcribed by Kiterunner I haven't done much it's all Kiterunner's work.

Edit to say:

I'm tempted to get these too:


Also these which may or may not be connected:

Will of Joseph Hoye, Yeoman of Woodford , Essex 11 March 1813

Will of John Hoye, Wheelwright of Woodford , Essex 05 September 1747

Probably not connected but it's not a very common name and also the occupations intrigue me Wheelwright came up a few times and so did Yeoman in some other stuff that I dismissed a long time ago because I couldn't find any connection.

£7 not so much money the amount I've spent on FH doesn't bear thinking about to be honest.

[maggie_4_7]

Found a marriage

Richard Hoye and Elizabeth Mackey it so can't be a coincidence William named his third son Richard, maybe Richard isn't Robert's father but he chose him to be I think Robert was certainly born before the marriage.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=lmamarriages&h=1434476&ti=5538&indiv=try&gss=pt&ssrc=pt_t19580145_p825332527_kpidz0q3d825332527z0q 26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgPLz0q3dpid


ERRRRR both widow and widower curiosier and curiosier

Edit to say:

A few trees on Ancestry but none of them have Robert listed maybe he was their little secret or Elizabeth's little secret.

When I started this thread I didn't think I would find much information been a bit of a dead end for ages - or that anyone would either but it's been absolutely brilliant still haven't gotten to the bottom of the Hoye/Mackey problem probably never will but at least its a gate that has been unlocked mostly and very much by Kiterunner though rather than me I have to say :)

[maggie_4_7]

Can you believe it I have just looked at the 1851 census I have for Robert Hoye Junior not looked for a while and it's there staring me in the face but I thought she was named after her mother Ann Pluck's family.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1851&indiv=try&h=4677219

Ann Wallis Hoye aged 4 Robert Hoye Junior's daughter!!!

I think Ann must defintely have been Robert's mother. I don't think she was William and Elizabeth's mother somehow though. We seem to have the name Jones in there too.

Edit: I think thats Sarah Jane not Sarah Jones :)!

hehe I just remembered Elizabeth Williams Hoye's profession ' Letter Receiver' giss' a job sounds easy...

[kiterunner]

When the Post Office records finally go online on ancestry, hopefully you'll find a few entries relating to the Hoyes. They seem to be taking a long time to put them online, though.

[maggie_4_7]

Here is Ann Wallis Hoye's will

She names William Thomas Hoye as her son in law! and Elizabeth Williams Hoye as his sister so that must mean her step son rather than what we think son in law means today. She names Robert Hoye as her son so it's probably as we suspected Ann isn't William and Elizabeth's mother and Elizabeth Williams Doolittle might be.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1704&iid=31787_A037343-00446&fn=Ann+Wallis&ln=Hoye&st=r&ssrc=&pid=348191