I may have had a breakthrough in my NZ lot.

[HarrysMum]

You may remember I asked about my great, great grandparents, Patrick Bowler and Deborah Brosnahan, who were supposed to have gone to NZ.

Their daughter, Margaret, entered the convent in Tasmania and became Sister Vincent. I have never found either Patrick or Deborah after the baptisms of their children in Ireland.

Well, a family member has found the records of their farm in Ireland, and it turns out Patrick died in 1859 and Deborah took over the farm and then moved in with her widowed daughter, Mary Hussey, until her death.

What is interesting, is that Margaret married John Brosnahan in Ireland at age 15. In 1873 a group of Brosnahans went to NZ, John and Margaret amongst them.

So, the story then skips a couple of years and Margs brothers, Patrick and John Bowler go to NZ and marry there.

In 1888, Margaret goes to Tasmania and becomes a nun. She says her parents are NZ farmers, although she does give her correct birthdate and parents names. She just omits the fact her husband is still very much alive in NZ.

Margaret, as Sr Vincent has a fair bit written about her as she teaches in Tasmania, until her death in 1919. Strangely, although she us buried at Tunnack in Tasmania with other nuns, her grave runs in a different direction. Nobody can tell us why.

After finding all this info, I wonder if she confessed on her deathbed and the priest decided this would be her punishment. After all, he could never tell anyone and kicking her out would probably bring bad publicity to the order.

Well, I am now trying to prove my theory, so any ideas would be good.

[Mary from Italy]

How fascinating!

[HarrysMum]

Yes it is, Mary. I still can't work out what happened in the intervening years. There does not appear to be any children from the marriage. I am trying to work out how to buy the cert. Irish records are so alien to me...lol

[kiterunner]

So have you found a record of Deborah's death in Ireland, Libby?

Also what theory are you trying to prove, please?

[Merry]

Could this be her?


Name: Deborah Bowler
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1812
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1899
Death Age: 87
Registration district: Killarney
Volume: 5
Page: 214
FHL Film Number: 101600

[Merry]

and could this be Deborah's daughter?


Name: Mary Hussey
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1915
Death Age: 68
Registration district: Killarney
Volume: 5
Page: 221

[Merry]

Oh, scrap that first death reg as they are together in 1901:

Residents of a house 6 in Gearha (Molahiffe, Kerry)

Hussey Mary 50 Female Daughter Roman Catholic
Hussey Patrick 27 Male Grand Son Roman Catholic
Bowler Deborah 75 Female Head of Family Roman Catholic

[HarrysMum]

Merry, I have that cert. I bought it prior to finding them in 1901. I have a photo that is supposed to be Deborah taken in Hobart, Tasmania. However, I think maybe Margaret may have had a photo of her mum and had it reprinted in Hobart. The photo did come from Margaret.

Kate, I am trying to prove the Marg I found marrying John Brosnahan is actually mine.
Then, if so, how she came to the convent.

Does anyone know how, or if, I can buy a marriage cert from Kerry, Ireland for 1871.

Libby since the early centuries married women have entered convents. It was different if she had children to raise. It was not the usual case, but not all nuns were virgins, which some orders required. The requirement in some orders was that they were celebate once they entered. In one of the very famous early orders, a husband started one male order and his wife started the female part. However in those days in Tasmania the requirements may have only been loosely adhered to anyway. So even if she was married, she may have agreed to live apart from her husband and it would only be if he objected that the order wouldn't have taken her. She may of course not told the convent authorities, but her confessor would have known about it long before her deathbed. With the life they led being so precarious, I wouldn't imagine she would have thought she'd put that off to the last minute lol. Just my thoughts. Cheers. Julie

[HarrysMum]

Julie....I know married women could and can enter convents, but not while their husband was still alive. Holy Orders is a Catholic sacrament and is likened to being married to Christ, hence Brides of Christ...

So unless the marriage was annulled she would never have been accepted into the order. Also, Mary MacKillop was already on the outer from the church powers that be and certainly would not have accepted someone who would have caused more trouble......not in that way anyhow.

The archivist at St Joeys is having a ball playing with this at the moment. I've not heard anyone have so much fun for ages....lol

I think also, if by some chance the order did know and that is why the grave is as it is, they would have that somewhere in their records and not keep bringing it up for people to speculate on.